Ep. 70 | Israeli Loyalty Test: When Questioning Israel Becomes a Crime
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
So they're trying to tell us that forcing Harvard to change its antisemitism policy is just all about protecting Jewish students from hate, right? No, I would actually say, let's look a little bit deeper, which is what we're about to do, because when the government actually starts changing, what words mean?
Just to shut down any form of criticism of Israel. That's no longer protection, that's actually straight up control. And when that control puts another country's interest ahead of American citizens, now yes, I'm Australian, but we're gonna be talking predominantly about America and Israel and the antisemitism laws, to do with Trump's administration, and Harvard in particular, when that control ends up putting Israel.
And Israel's interestahead of American citizens. That kind of tells you everything that you need to know. To me, the system isn't just broken. It's actually bought and paid for. So first of all, welcome to Controversial as Fuck. [00:01:00] I'm Holly Wilde. Today we're gonna be diving deep into something that, honestly, a lot of podcasts are too scared to touch. One podcaster that I have seen discuss this in a really great way was actually Candace Owens. And so I highly recommend that you go and check out her episode where she discusses this.
I'm not sure what the title of the episode is. but yeah, highly recommend her breakdown of it. But a lot of podcasters or a lot of people on social media don't wanna broach these kind of subjects because they're controversial. But obviously the podcast controversial as fuck is the place for that. I'm honestly really over seeing free speech, just completely get thrown under the bus to keep certain powerful interests happy. And look, I'm gonna start off this by saying I think Trump has a lot of charisma. So to paint a scene, especially if you're new to my podcast, I'm Australian, I'm an Australian woman. I don't align myself with any particular party. So if we're talking about American politics, I don't consider myself a leftist or a right.
[00:02:00] Right. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican. I don't consider myself on either of the, of the polar opposite extremes. I actually think at the end of the day, both sides, whether that is like the leaders of both sides answer to the same people. I would say though I do like Trump, I think he has a lot of charisma.
I've said this before, I've done podcast episodes where I've mentioned him. I think he speaks really directly, which I respect. I like the fact that he doesn't dance around issues, and he's a bit of a cowboy when it comes to, he'll just say what he thinks no matter who's listening, and I, I actually like that even if it's not perfectly polished.
I would prefer someone to speak their mind and to be themselves no matter who's around, rather than putting on a facade. This is why I said I believed he was a way better option than Harris. I do stand by that strongly, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna stay quiet when I see something concerning going on.
And this is one of those instances, what is happening with his push, and it's his administration. So it's the [00:03:00] Trump administration. They have a push at the moment against Harvard's antisemitism definition, and to me it is a giant big red flag. So here's the deal. I'll briefly get into kind of what's going on and then why I have concerns with it.
So, Trump's team is basically forcing Harvard to adopt this specific definition of antisemitism. There's been obviously a lot of protests going on campuses around America to do with, uh, Palestine and Israel, and some have gotten violent, many haven't. It's just been discourse, which I think. That's awesome.
We should be able to discuss things. I'm a big advocate of free speech, and I always will be. What's actually happening though is Trump's administration is forcing Harvard to adopt the way that they want anti-Semitism laws to be defined. But it's not just about protecting Jewish people from actual hate.
And this is where the average person who just let's say, reads it as a headline would be like, oh, well that's a good thing, right? Because we don't [00:04:00] want. Hatred towards Jews to be allowed on campuses and to be allowed in universities across America. And obviously Harvard leads the way, and most people, most citizens, no matter what country they're from, would probably read a headline like that and think, well, that's awesome.
Trump's administration's doing the right thing. But the thing is, this isn't just about stopping and or protecting Jewish people from actual hate. Because I think everyone could agree that that is wrong if you're a decent human being. Any form of hatred toward a, towards a Jewish individual is wrong, but this is where the lines get blurred because no, what's actually happening is they want to make it anti-Semite to, if anybody.
Any student, any person is going to criticize Israel's political influence in America, then that will now be deemed as antisemitism, and I'm gonna get into it. But they're actually trying to make it a punishable [00:05:00] offense If you even critique. Israel's political influence in America. This is where it really concerns me.
So I want you to get this as I'm recording this right now, they're actually threatening, so Trump's administration is threatening to freeze over $2.2 billion in grants. and 60 million in contracts.
So Trump's administration is threatening that if Harvard does not redefine what antisemitism means. To them, and and to their own policies. Harvard, if they don't redefine it, then Trump's administration has threatened that they will freeze over $2.2 billion in grants and 60 million in contracts to Harvard.
It's gonna be frozen if they don't play ball. That's not a suggestion. They're not just suggesting, can you please do this? They're basically saying, do what we want or else. And this is not about left or right. This is why I wanted to say this in the beginning. I don't [00:06:00] align myself with either left or right.
Okay, so let's just put that aside and let's all just look at this from a, from critical thinking, from critical thought. I don't care what religion you follow, what political allegiance you have. I don't care what race nationality you are, let's just look at this from a critical lens for a second. This is about your basic right to ask questions without being labeled as something that you are not.
I have been labeled as Antis Semitic before because I have questioned Zionism. I think that hardcore Zionism is atrocious And that has come with a label of antisemitism. Even though I hold no hatred in my heart to any Jewish person, there is not a single Jewish person on the planet that I can think of that I hold hatred towards.
'cause I just genuinely don't hold hatred in my heart towards anybody. It doesn't matter who you are. I'm not a hateful person. I can dislike people, but I don't hate them. Right? So I have been labeled something that I'm not, because I questioned [00:07:00] a. Group and that group are not Jews because you could be a non-Jew and be a Zionist,So as I said, this is not about left or right, it's about your basic rights to be able to ask questions without then being labeled as something that you are actually not different story if you actually are that thing. But when that then benefits another country over American citizen. Something is seriously off, and you might be thinking, well, you're Australia.
Why do you give a crap? Well, because other countries tend to follow suit with America. Like, let's be honest, Australia tends to follow the leadership of America. So many countries do Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, like America tends to set the stage for the rest of the world, for the rest of the Western world in particular. So yeah, this is quite important. The hypocrisy here is honestly just mind blowing. So this is the same administration, the Trump administration, that talks all day about protecting free speech on [00:08:00] campuses, right? They, they want to ban certain opinions though that they don't like, make it make sense, somebody make it make sense. Because there's an actual difference between real hate speech against Jewish people.
And just questioning who has political influence, right? So one is bigotry. If you are hating on Jewish people, like wishing death and harm onto Jewish people, yeah, that is bigotry. But the other, the other side, if you are just questioning who has the most political influence. Why? Why does Israel seem to have so much power over American politicians?
Right. I can see this from afar, from across the pond over here in Australia, across the ocean. So I'm not being a bigot. I'm not saying I wish harm onto Jewish people. I'm just simply questioning what's going on politically. Why does it seem like Israel has so much influence over America? I am asking who's actually calling the shots? What is behind all this? Who's [00:09:00] calling the shots? And when we actually mix these up, right, we are mixing up actual antisemitism in with critical thinking and being able to raise questions.
We're no longer protecting anyone. I've said this before in other episodes, we're actually just making sure that powerful interests don't get questioned. That is what I believe is behind this. I actually believe behind this Israel. Is pushing for this because then American citizens are not allowed to question Israel.
Think about it. Who is benefiting from this? It's not. It's not Jewish Americans that are benefiting from this. They're not benefiting. It's Israel. And I want you to think about this for a second, because under these rules that they want, that the Trump administration is trying to force Harvard to adopt, they're actually saying that if, let's say a student said that a particular American politician seems more loyal to Israel than America. That actually would come with a label of you are antisemitic and that [00:10:00] comes with dire consequences. It's not because they said anything about Jewish people. 'cause in that sentence they didn't, Jews weren't even mentioned, but it's because they've actually dared to ask a question of the relationship between American politics and Israeli's interests.
I can stand here or sit here right now and say, I believe Trump to a degree, answers to Israel and has Israel's interests above American. I think this is one of those instances where he's actually putting the interests of his handlers or the people that, that pull the strings, the people that he answers to, which I believe is Israel.
He's putting their interests above American citizens. Because they're not allowed to question why certain politicians have more of an allegiance to Israel than they do to their own country. Since when is asking who's influencing our government? So for an American citizen, if they're asking [00:11:00] questions about who's actually influencing our government, since when is that considered hate speech, and why does Israel always seem to be the ones that get special treatment that no other country gets?
No other country gets that special treatment. This should be alarming and it even gets crazier. They want Harvard to actually kick out groups or individuals who criticize Israel's policies, even if they're peaceful about it. So let's put aside any. Violence, right? There could be an a, a student that goes to Harvard, or a group of students that go to Harvard and they criticize Israel's policies,
They're completely against Israel's policies and they question them and they raise points about it. They can actually be kicked out of going to Harvard under this new antisemitism definition that Trump's administration is trying to push. They can actually be kicked outta students. You imagine working your entire student life just to get into Harvard, to then raise a question about Israel's policies, which is a genuine question.[00:12:00]
No, no hate speech, no violence. Just genuinely saying your peace and saying, listen, I don't agree with this policy and this is why, and you can be kicked out of Harvard. You're not even allowed to say that. Some Jewish individuals might be more loyal to Israel than America. Which I think is ridiculous because many openly are many reporters in America, many politicians in America are more pro-Israel than they are pro-America, and they don't hide it.
Just like there's many Italian Americans who feel closer ties to Italy, or there's many Irish Americans who feel a stronger allegiance and tie to to Ireland, but apparently. As soon as we say, oh, this particular Jewish politician seems to have more interest and more allegiance to Israel than they do to America, that is deemed as hate speech. Also, apparently the number of Holocaust deaths is completely off limits for any discussion. [00:13:00] Now, before you squirm in your chair and say, oh, we shouldn't go there, just think about it.
Any atrocity in the world where there has been large quantities of death that is open for discussion, that is not minimizing what happened, but it is normal to have discourse and say how many people died in that particular time in history. Oh, it was this many, oh no, I thought it was this many, that this is normal discussions.
It is now deemed as completely off limits with these new definition laws. You cannot even ask questions about it. It is completely protected. The whole thing to me, just screams of special treatment and ultimately it's protecting Israel. While throwing free speech under the bus, and again, it's important to me and it should be important to you because the rest of the world follows suits with America.
If you really wanna understand what's happening here, just follow the money. I say this on any topic, follow the money. The paper [00:14:00] trail, the pro-Israel lobby in America is ridiculously powerful. I've talked about APAC before, A-I-P-A-C.
Now, I've mentioned APAC before on different episodes, and just to remind you, APAC stands for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. They actually dump millions every year, making sure that politicians on both sides stay firmly in Israel's pocket.
It's so evident as an Australian watching from afar. It is always to do with Israel. Everything seems to lead back to Israel, and I get that. That gives me the antisemitism label. I don't care at this point. I'm over it, but it's not just Republicans or Democrats. Both sides seems to fall over themselves.
I've literally fall over themselves showing loyalty to Israel. They just package it a little bit differently bet, depending on which side they say they are politically. But honestly, who's winning from all this? Because if you're an American citizen, it's, it's not you. Your tax dollars are funding billions in [00:15:00] aid to Israel every single year. It's not the college students. They should be learning to be able to question everything, to be able to use critical thinking, to apply free speech, to feel free, to be able to raise questions.
But it's not even Jewish Americans who are winning from all this, and I wanna make this clear. They're not winning from this. They're actually getting used as shields for policies that aren't actually about protecting them from real antisemitism. They're actually just being used as, as shields. That's what it looks like for me anyway
The only winners, in my opinion, are the ones who wanna free pass from criticism, both in Israel and in the American political establishment. They, they are the ones that cater to Israel's interests. Ultimately, Israel is the one that's winning from all of this. I've said this before and I'll say it again.
I believe Trump answers to Israel. I did an episode where I spoke about. Oh, what episode was it? It's about how when you [00:16:00] first kind of have maybe a spiritual awakening or some form of like awakening in life where you tend to look at the world differently and you become more aware of, you know. The so-called matrix and the systems and the authorities and the institutions and the status quo, and you start looking at life so differently and you're like, whoa, I didn't see any of this before.
And when you first come out of it, a lot of people, and I was one of them, you can tend to become very like left versus right, and. Um, you know, not want to align yourself with, for instance, leftists were deemed as bad, or you go the opposite side where you're like, oh, the right is X, Y, z and you still get caught in this us versus them kind of narrative where you might say you're awake, but really you've just swapped sides like, and I was definitely one of them.
So in that episode I mentioned that in coming out of that way of thinking and not aligning myself with any party and not wanting to go down, that us versus them kind of narrative too much. I could still see some [00:17:00] positives from someone like Trump. Absolutely. But I do think he ultimately answers to Israel.
I think it's the same with Bob Bobby Kennedy. I've said that before. I think that he answers to Zionists that he has a Zionist handler. I think Trump has Zionists handlers. I think ultimately they answer to Zionists, and this comes back to Israel. It's the elephant in the room that nobody seems to want to talk about. This isn't an isolated incident, This is a pattern that we've seen over and over and anyone who questions anything about Israel, whether it's about how they treat Palestinians, whether it's about the influence on American politics, or maybe it's about the billions that they send in aid to Israel.
As soon as you question any of those things, you get attacked and you get labeled and you get called antisemitic and you get de platformed or fired. People have been fired and now they're trying to make it a criminal offense. Seriously. I have a question for you. I want you to name one other [00:18:00] country where this happens.
You can trash China. Russia, Saudi Arabia, even America itself. So American citizens are allowed to trash their own country all day long. Nobody loses a job for saying, oh, Americans foreign policy in the Middle East is a total disaster. No one loses their job or gets de platformed or faces criminal charges for that.
But the moment that you say, oh, Israel has too much influence on American politics, suddenly that is a different story. That is treated so, so differently. This affects all of us in real ways. It creates this, honestly, it's a chilling effect where you can't just talk about one specific area of foreign policy that is off limits.
It's like, don't go there. It's the elephant in the room. Don't go there. You go there and you're gonna be targeted. You're gonna be de platformed, and you're going to be labeled as a million possible names that they can come up with so that you shut your mouth. [00:19:00] American citizens. I wanna speak to you specifically for a minute 'cause I do have, uh, a majority American audience.
Even though I am Australian, your tax money is flowing to another country without any real debate about it. You think about it, if Harvard loses in this against the Trump administration, this makes it even harder for these topics to be debated about whether privately or publicly. Yeah, because privately it comes with the, with a thought of you could be outcast, you could be rejected, you could be seen as the weird one.
Oh, you are the, the one that spreads hate speech, right? So within communities, you can be outcast for saying things like this within your friendship circles, family, whatever it is, it's like, oh, it's the elephant in the room. Just don't go there. No one wants to talk about it Publicly. You can be criminalized.
That's what you're, you're now gonna be facing de platformed of, as I've said. This sets it up. So we cannot debate these things. [00:20:00] And your government, the American government, ends up caring more about another country's interest than your own. It is actually positioning it so Israel becomes more of a priority above America.
So American citizens can suffer at the hands of Israel as long as Israel's winning. I want you to actually try this thought experiment for me. I want you to replace the word Israel with any other country in these policies. So if you look it up, look it up. What Trump, the Trump administration is trying to enforce some of the parts of, of what they're trying to get Harvard to agree to make sense.
And other parts of it. When you actually look beneath it, don't just look surface level. Look beneath what they're actually saying and that's when you'll see that It's like, oh, we actually cannot criticize Israel at all. That's what it's coming down to. And replace the word Israel with any other country.
What if criticizing Russia's influence on American politics could get you fired or thrown in [00:21:00] jail or kicked out of your, your, uh, university that you've worked your entire student life to be a part of? How would you feel about that? If it was the word Russia? What if questioning Saudi Arabia was considered Islamophobia and it was now grounds for getting kicked out of, out of college?
we say university here in Australia. I know you say college in America, so what if it was grounds for getting kicked out of college? Think about it. It just sounds honestly completely insane. Right. It's insane because it is, but somehow when it comes to Israel, we've just accepted that as normal.
It's just normal and it's not, we cannot normalize these things. The real test of honesty is applying the same standards to everyone, and by that measure, America's relationship with Israel is honestly completely messed up. So I just wanna leave you with a few questions to sit with. Why is criticizing Israel the one thing that can get you fired, [00:22:00] de platformed, or potentially locked up like this is serious stuff when criticizing literally any other country's just normal political talk.
Why is Israel different? Why we should be asking these questions? If you can criticize your own government all day long, right? If you're an American citizen and you're allowed to criticize. The American politicians, the American government, that that's, that's okay. You can do that all day long. But criticizing Israel's influence over your government gets you labeled antisemitic.
Who's really calling the shots here? Is that not clear to everybody? It's not America calling the shots, it's Israel. Israel has massive influence over America, over the world, and it is clear when things like this are trying to be pushed through. My third question is, when did being a good American require you to be loyal to another country's interests? [00:23:00] Why? Why do you need to be loyal to Israel? Why are they pushing this? This isn't about being pro-Trump or anti-Trump. I really wanna make that clear. This is not a left or a right thing, okay? It's about having the freedom to question power.
Any power. I don't care what that power is, and it's about doing that without being labeled as something that you are not. This is where things are getting confounded, confounded, confounded, conflated. This is where things are being conflated. Right. It's where people who actually are very hateful towards Jews, where that speech is being mixed in with genuine questions about Israel's interests, about Israel's policies, about apac, and how much money is being sent to Israel about the influence over the American government and the American people and laws.
All of that is being mixed in as one. So now if one [00:24:00] individual questions APAC or questions Israel's politics. Policies, they are put into the same camp as someone who is actually very hateful towards Jews. That is concerning the moment that we actually give up our right to ask who's really running this country?
Who's really running the show? We've already lost, and from where I'm sitting over here in Australia, I can see that that surrender is happening right now in America. And look, it's happening in Australia too. Like, I'm not suggesting my government is amazing. It's not. It's happening everywhere. if you care about free speech, which I believe you do, because you're a listener of this podcast, you are a person who values free speech, critical thinking, honest speech, honest thinking.
This should worry you no matter what your politics are. it should be concerning you because once we start criminalizing questions, we are no longer living in a free society anymore. We're actually living in a controlled one.
And that deeply concerns me, [00:25:00] not just for us, but for the future generations. And this is why I will continue to raise questions on this podcast no matter what label it comes with. No matter what label it comes with, it's all good. I refuse to just sit back and take things on surface level and I know you're the same and this is why I'm raising this with you.
I really wanna follow this story and this, I don't know, is it a, I think it's going to court. I actually think it's going to court and it's so, so it should. I definitely back Harvard on this for sure. I hope that they win. This is not something that should be taken lightly. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna leave you with that one.
I actually missed the last couple of weeks. I thought I'd just quickly address this at the end. I missed the last couple of weeks of episodes and it was not deliberate. Absolutely not deliberate. But it's been a nice break and I'm back with I'm, I'm back more fired up than ever and I've got some awesome episodes coming in the next few weeks.
So. Stick around. I love your guts as always. [00:26:00] Please let me know your thoughts on this. I'm not just sitting here raising questions because I love the sound of my own voice. That's not what this is about. I'm raising questions for you to then answer and to come up with your own assessment. You do not have to agree with me on everything that I've said or anything that I've said.
I'm simply raising critical. Questions, critical thought, applying, critical thinking, and I would love for you to do the same and then share with me. Let me know if you are watching this on YouTube. Let me know in the comments what your thoughts are on it. Maybe what your thoughts were when you first looked at it, when you first saw the headlines.
And then what are your thoughts when you've gone deeper? Have you changed the way that you thought about it, or do you still feel the same no matter which way you view it? If you're listening to this on one of the podcasting platforms, message me. Come to my Instagram and message me. If you are watching this clip on TikTok or Instagram, let me know.
I'd love to know your thoughts and the way that you view the world, and the more that we challenge each other in a really respectful way, the more that we actually grow and understand other human beings. So I just wanna say thank you for being here. [00:27:00] Thank you so much for always tuning in. You're an absolute legend.
I'll continue to grill the sacred cows that everyone says are off limits. 'cause according to me, they absolutely are not off limits, no topic is off limits. And yeah, I just wanna say I love you so, so much. Have an awesome week, legend. Bye.
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