Ep. 45 | 🍿Comment Chaos: Viewer Reactions to Abortion, Hookup Culture, and Responsibility
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
We are back with another comment, chaos episode. If you can't tell, I've really missed chatting with you guys. So yeah, if you listened to Tuesday's episode this week, I gave an explanation as to where I was for the last couple of weeks, what the crap was going on. Why I wasn't recording episodes and yeah.
Make sure you check that one out. But today. Oh, we are going to discuss the. Abortion episode that I dropped. So I kind of left you all with a cliffhanger that was not deliberate. I did the abortion episode, which is a highly contentious, uncomfortable topic for many, for myself included. I did that full episode and then not deliberately was away for two whole weeks.
So I left you guys with that one and just let it simmer and fester. No, it wasn't bad at all. I expected, for people to come hard for me with that one, I did. I expected it and I would have understood it is a very touchy, [00:01:00] raw subject for a lot of people. There are such different opinions and different ways of looking at it. So I expected people to come hard for me because I did. Say my opinions.
I gave my opinions on the topic, but I was very intentional about anything that I said came from a place of genuine love. For starters, genuine love zero shame, zero judgment. Right. I made it clear that. I personally have not had an abortion in my life and will not have an abortion no matter what. Right.
That was just something I decided when I was younger and I've stuck to it. But in saying that, and I did make it clear in that episode, but I want to say it again cause I miss you guys and I haven't spoken to you for a couple of weeks, really? So. Let me just make it clear. This is with zero judgment.
Like some of my absolute closest friends in this world who I adore and love dearly have had abortions. And I understood why they had them. I fully understood. It's not something that I would have done, [00:02:00] but that does not mean that I judged them. That does not mean that I'm saying what they're doing for them was wrong.
Right. I want to make that clear just because you might not do something. Does not mean that you are then judging the person that is doing it. You were just saying that it's not something that fits right. For me in my life. It's not something that fits, maybe it's my values or maybe it's my view on life, or maybe it's whatever it is.
Right. So it's, doesn't come with judgment. I don't hate people who have had abortions. In fact, I would say I hold the highest levels of compassion because I can't even begin to imagine. Making that decision, what that would be like. Right. But on the flip side, I also come from the view of, I just don't think we have a right to take somebody's life.
And I know that that comes with. Like that sounds like a loaded thing. I know that because many people that do have abortions very early on, like I'm talking like in the first 12 weeks, they would say that's not a life. [00:03:00] Right. They would say that. That is just a bunch of cells you hear people say, but like the way that I feel it is, I'm also a bunch of cells.
Like right now, I am just a bunch of cells mashed together that form a human. So like, I know there's different ways of looking at it. I, if you haven't listened to the episode, definitely go and have a listen to the abortion episode. I go through it. I say everything. With absolute love. It is not a loaded conversation.
It is not a judgment, ashamed conversation. I really I'm strong on that. I just, for myself, for me and only me. Just decided when I was younger, that I would not have an abortion. And I followed through on that, therefore that has directed a lot of decisions in my life. Right. Because as I made it clear in that episode, I'm about to go through your comments by the way.
But as I said, in that episode, If I'm not going to have an abortion, then I need to be careful with. Who I'm going to fall pregnant [00:04:00] with, obviously, because I am keeping that baby I'm keeping that child, therefore I need to be very, very selective and it does govern decisions. That can come with pros and cons, right?
Every decision in life that you look at, there's all different ways of looking at it. Okay. So I'm not saying that my way of moving through life is right. And someone who has a different way of moving through life is wrong. Right? I'm not saying that. What I do think is that if I have walked your life and your existence, and I had like, if I was you, I would likely, in fact, I would a hundred percent say that I would hold your view of the world. The exact view that you hold right now and whatever view you hold an abortion, I would hold that too, because I've walked your life.
I am you. And it would be the same in reverse. If you were me and you walked my existence, all of my life experiences, everything, the fuck ups, the successes, the [00:05:00] failures, the whatever you want to call it. Right? The. The everything. If you walked my life, you would hold the same view as me. And that's what I want to make clear.
This is not a I'm against you, if you think differently, or I think you're this, that, or I think you're wrong. If you do the, it's not a right or wrong, it's just, this is what I chose for my life. And I stuck at it and there are pros and cons that come with that. Right. And you may have a different view and there are pros and cons that come with that. But one thing I did stand strongly on in that episode is I, I do not agree very strongly on having late term abortions.
I honestly, I do think that is a thousand percent murder. Like I will stand strongly on that. I think that is shocking. Right. Full-term baby, like disgusting. I can understand more. If someone was to have an abortion in say the first 12 weeks, I can understand it. Would I do it? No, but I can understand it. I can understand.
Let's just say, if a woman was [00:06:00] leaving a relationship, right, she'd made the decision to leave. She was about to have the conversation. This is just one example. And then she fell pregnant. I could imagine the overwhelming. Just grief and pain of processing, all of that being like, holy shit, we are now tied together for life.
Like. I can understand that there are certain situations in life that would make a woman be like, I can't do this. I understand. I genuinely understand. No, I have not walked that path, but I can understand right. So, yeah, it was not a loaded. Yes. Abortion is a loaded topic, but it was not a loaded episode of, I think you're wrong if you think different to me.
So let me just make that clear. Now. One of the things I did bring up was I'm just bringing up something on my. Uh, laptop here, just so I can read your comments. One of the things that I did bring up though, was how I think it is pretty tough on men.
And [00:07:00] just hear me out for a second. If you're a woman and you're like, here we go. She was sticking up for the men. No, hear me out. Men, don't get a say in this, right. It's a woman's body. She gets to choose for her own body. Right. So let's just say that there is a couple that are in in a loving, beautiful relationship and the woman falls pregnant, but she doesn't want to keep the baby, but the man does.
And he's like, no, that's my child. Like. I want to keep that this is my child. Don't, don't take my child from me, but the woman goes and has an abortion. I couldn't imagine the pain. The excruciating pain and grief that that would bring up for that man, because he gets no say in that. Like that's, that's a sticky situation.
I can imagine. How traumatic that would be. And I, I brought up in the episode how I think I did anyway, where I saw her. A video of a man just like crying and saying, look, I like my baby was taken from me. Like. I don't get a say in that. And that was my child too. You know, it would be very [00:08:00] difficult.
So I just want to read a comment. So I'm a YouTube video. I can only see one comment, which surprised the crap out of me. I think some of the reels have, um, like some of the YouTube shorts have more comments. I'll have a look and we'll go through them. But there's one here by Ben Naughton. 8 3 5 8. Hello, Ben.
I have read some of Ben's comments out before on different episodes. You're a legend, Ben. He always has the most thought provoking. Things to say, I just, yeah, you come off as very highly intelligent and self-aware human being Ben. So this is what he said. Hi, Holly. Many women may be unaware of the fact that many men know that the only legal recourse that men have in regards to this issue. Is to never sleep with someone that declared themselves to be pro-choice right.
So just let's stop for a second before I continue. You think about it? Men don't have legal recourse. So if a woman chooses to abort her baby. There baby. Men, don't get a say in that men [00:09:00] don't don't have legal recourse in that. Right? So the only way of, I guess, mitigating that is to not sleep with somebody.
So to not actually have sex with a woman who is pro-choice because then they know that there's a chance that they're going to. I bought the baby potentially. Right. And then he said I've had conversations with a surprising number of men that instantly put a woman in the friend zone when they discover that she's pro-choice. They just don't tell her because they don't want the drama, which I would understand.
Right. That would, especially in this day and age, Especially in this day and age where men are seen as misogynistic pigs, right? That is the general consensus. I don't agree with it. I think, I mean, if you're new to my YouTube channel or to my podcast go and listen to all my other episodes. All right.
I stand for men. I don't believe that masculinity is toxic is inherently toxic. If a man is expressing himself in toxic ways, it's not his masculinity. It's his lack of [00:10:00] responsibility. It's his lack of maturity. It's his lack of healing. It is lack of self-awareness it's lack of. Discipline and so many things in his life, right?
It's not his masculinity. So I stand with men and I can understand why they wouldn't want to tell a woman. I've put you in the friend zone because you're pro-choice because you imagine. All of the patriarchy bullshit that would be brought up about that. Right. I understand. And then he said, so he's got, they just don't tell her because they don't want the drama. I don't condemn women who are pro-choice.
I know it is an immensely nuanced issue. I agree. He goes yet again, gutsy subject matter. Well done. Thank you, Ben. I a hundred percent understand what you're saying and agree with what you've said. They're like, yeah. We don't condemn a woman who is pro-choice like, I understand, I actually understand. And it is an immensely nuanced topic.
That's why I was, I was actually nervous to even record the [00:11:00] episode. Like you would have heard it in my voice when I was recording it or just in the way that I was talking, it was like, ah, I don't really want to touch this topic, but Hey, you can't have a controversial as fuck podcast and not discuss controversial topics that is being very weak.
So. Got to touch on the controversial stuff. And I think it's important to hold space for these types of conversations. Like let's just talk about it, even if we all see things differently, let's just talk about it and understand. So ask questions to understand someone else's point of view and what got them to that point of view, understand what led them to their life, views, their world views their. Beliefs, their morals, their moral compass, their everything, what led to that.
And we would understand once we actually got to know the individual, rather than judging them just on surface level, this is why I love how Ben said I don't condemn women who are pro-choice because again, if we walked in their shoes, we would also think the same. Right. I really do think that. But he's raised a really good point.
Men don't [00:12:00] have legal standing and the only way to mitigate that. In there in someone who thinks like this and a man who thinks like this. Is to not sleep with a woman who is pro-choice. If. They are the type of man. And if there, for instance, say girlfriends was to fall pregnant and they w they would want to have that baby with that woman.
Well, yeah, you're going to make sure that you're not sleeping with a pro-choice woman because. If she just randomly decides, look, I actually don't want this. You, you get no say in that. So I thought you raised a really, really good point there. Ben, thank you for commenting as always. You're such a legend.
All right, let's go through some of that YouTube short. So there was obviously that's the whole episode. And then I get clips out of that whole episode and they are released as YouTube shorts and Instagram reels and Tik Tok's and all that kind of stuff. So. These are shorter clips. People don't have full context unless they've listened to an entire episode. So these are shorter clips.
So someone has said on one of the clips, which [00:13:00] had the title, a controversial take on abortion. Someone has said one in four women in my country have done the awesome thing. Think about it. That's a culture of death. And I think this was in response to the fact that I was saying, one of the things that I don't agree with and that I don't like is that abortion is celebrated.
I think there's a difference between a woman making a, an informed decision for herself. If that's what she chooses to do. Again, maybe in the first 12 weeks, I would understand more. Okay. Again, zero judgment, zero shame. It's just, I would understand more if it was in that first, early stages. After that I. I can't wrap my head around it.
I mean, I can't fully even wrap my head around it in that stage, but especially after 12 weeks, but.
I said, I don't agree with the fact that it's almost like let's have abortion parties, like let's celebrate this. I don't think that's something to celebrate. Like I genuinely don't. I think that, you know, killing off something, it's not something to celebrate.
Like. [00:14:00] Even if I killed a fly, I'm not going to go and have a fly party about it. And that may sound wonky, but like, I don't feel. Happy about the fact that I killed a fly. Like, I'm just kind of like a little bit sad, but you're pissing me off. Like I'm going to get rid of the flag cause you're on my face.
Right. Is that right? Probably not. I don't. God damn. Right, but I'm not going to go and have a let's kill off flyers party. So I do understand what this person is saying here, where it's like, it's a culture of death. It can be like, if people are celebrating it, like you see, I have seen pro. Uh, choice. Like parties in America.
It's always in goddamn America. Sorry, my American listeners and viewers, but. That's like crazy parties that looks like in America of people like celebrating abortion and like, Almost like wanting to write it all over their bodies, like it's their full identity. And I find that very weird. I find that very weird.
I think you are celebrating death, like a. I don't know. It's just, yeah, I [00:15:00] understand what this person is saying. It's it is like a culture of death almost when it's celebrated as like a party.
Another one, this was, um, this clip, the title was challenging hookup culture, but that is because it was from the same podcast, all about abortion. But I was saying that because of my views, it has governed me to not. Engage actively in hookup culture because obviously I'm not going to have abortion, but I don't want to fall pregnant to like a million different men out there and have a million different babies to a million different men.
So. That has governed my choice of, you know, not engaging in hookup culture because. If I fall pregnant. Whoa, goddamn. I'm keeping that child. So. Yeah. That's why that came up. So someone has said, I believe the same way, even if pregnancy and diseases were involved, the quality of your time and energy. Are everything. So this person was obviously this isn't relating to abortion.
That was just part of the abortion conversation. But they're saying, yeah, even if pregnancy and diseases were [00:16:00] involved, The quality of your time and energy of everything. Our everything. Um, let's have a look. What else do we got?
Was that it?
God people did not come for me.
No, there's more.
Ah, that's right. Okay. So there was one where I said there is always hope and I do believe this in so many different aspects in life that there's always hope. No matter how dark a situation gets. There is always hope.
For instance, I know people personally. Uh, obviously I'm going to relate this back to the conversation of abortion, because that's what we're discussing. But I know people personally who were going to have abortions in the first, you know, 12 weeks or whatever, were going to have an abortion. They just felt like I can't do this.
This is not the right time in life. This is not it. And they chose not to. And that child ended up being one of the greatest gifts and blessings in their life. And they are so grateful that they didn't. I'm not saying that would be the case for everybody, but I'm just saying sometimes things seem very dark and very dire and very painful, but things can turn around in an instant and really surprise you in life.
And so I was explaining that obviously, again, [00:17:00] people don't have full context. They're like, They're not listening to the entire podcast episode about abortion. This is all that they're getting and it's literally like a 30 second clip. So this guy has said, This is some toxic advice. To be honest, if you're not ready to have a child, that child is going to have a pretty horrible life. I'm just saying statistically speaking.
So you're essentially advocating for a really horrible life for children. Now I want to say, first of all, I'm listening. I understand what you're saying. I just want to point something out. And just reflect something back to this individual. And that is where is your self responsibility? Where is your self responsibility?
Because just let me reflect this back for a second. If you're not ready to have a child. That child is going to have a pretty horrible life. You are saying that if you're not ready, There is nothing you can do to change that circumstance that you are not [00:18:00] responsible for your life. that you're stuck, that you can do nothing to make that situation better. And then he said, so you're essentially advocating for a really horrible life for children. No, you are advocating for taking no responsibility in life.
I. Think about it, right. As you said, if you're not ready to have a child, that child is going to have a pretty horrible life. Why is that the only way of looking at it? Why is that it it's either you're ready to have a child. Therefore, that means that child's going to have an awesome life. Well, that's not always the case or he's saying the other side of it is you're not ready to have a child.
Therefore, that child is going to have a horrible life.
Shitty way of viewing things like really shitty way of viewing things. What about the fact of someone could really not be ready to have a child? But if they choose to keep that child and they take responsibility for everything that they possibly can in their life, and they choose that [00:19:00] within their power and within their influence and within what they can control, they will give that child the best life at possibly can have.
No, I'm not talking financially. I'm not talking about worldly possessions. I'm talking about fucking love. I'm talking about teaching that child. The most incredible things in life and how to be strong and how to have compassion and how to be kind hearted and like, you know, values in life and moral compass and all these things, right?
I'm not talking about money and finances and material possessions, right. Because I understand some people are in very dire situations, but that does not mean that that child is going to have a fucked up existence. I, when I read this, all I hear genuinely is a lack of responsibility because you are saying. If someone is not ready to have a child, but they have that child that child's fucked up for life and they've got. No, nothing good can come from that situation. That's just not true.
If you take [00:20:00] responsibility for what you can as a parent to that child. I'm a mother. Right? I get it. You take responsibility for everything that you possibly can. To make that child's life beautiful. That does not mean you bubble wrap them. Like I'm really against the whole bubble wrapping thing of like over-protective parenting and helicopter parenting and all of that.
Like. Let the child make mistakes. Let the child learn from their mistakes. Let the child live, let them live their life. And don't you tell them how to live, but do what you possibly can as a parent to make their existence beautiful. While they're here on earth. So. I actually don't see it as toxic advice of saying that even in the darkest of moments, things can turn around.
I think that's actually providing hope for people. I think that if you're saying that the only option is that if you aren't ready for a child, that you need to get rid of it. Because that child's life is going to be screwed. I think you have a lack of [00:21:00] fucking responsibility in life. Genuinely. I'm hearing what you're saying, but I think you have a shitty lack of self responsibility because you can turn things around.
You have full power to turn things around.
I really mean that I'm not advocating for horrible life for children. I'm advocating for the opposite. And I actually just want to point out, and this has nothing to do with that comment, but it literally just popped in my head. I'm not religious. Like let's just make that clear because most people think that when you have the views that I hold for myself that, oh, she must be religious.
It doesn't come from religious stance. Right. Cause. Obviously most people that are religious would say don't have an abortion, right. That's tends to go together because, uh, I think something in the Bible, but I just want to just let me play devil's advocate for a second.
One of the things I was taught when I was raised very religious, was that.
Obviously, I don't believe this at all now. Right. But there's a heaven and a hell. And that you go to one of those two places when you die. I don't believe in hell I think how is the [00:22:00] state of consciousness that you can be living in right now on on earth. Right. But you either go to one of those two places.
It was taught to me. It's either heaven or it's hell. And one of the other things that was taught to us is the age of responsibility or the age of, I can't remember what they called it,
But it was taught to us that if a child was to pass away under the age of, I think it was 13, we were told. I don't know who made these numbers up by the way, who bloody knows. But if a child was to pass away under the age of 13, that they basically get a free pass straight to heaven because they aren't of the age of knowing or the age of understanding or the age of whatever.
Right. So. They couldn't necessarily make the right decisions in life because they're a child. So they get a free pass straight to heaven. That's what we were taught. Too bad if you're like a day over 13. Now, if you die in, well, you could be going to hell, right? It's absurd. The whole thing's bloody absurd, but that's what was taught to us.
So one of the things I do just want to point out a little crack in, and I'm not against you. If you're [00:23:00] religious, I just want to point something out that I could never reconcile. If a woman who is highly religious was to have an abortion, right. Isn't she technically giving that child a free pass straight to heaven. So. As a religious person, like, uh, let's say Christian, right?
Different religions. Believe in reincarnation, let's say Christian, right? You believe this is your one shot. This is your only existence. This is your only life. This is it. There's no reincarnation. Once you die, you either go to heaven or hell, depending on if you said the sinner's prayer and if you've accepted Jesus into your heart, right.
That's what was taught to us. As a woman. If you had an abortion, you are giving that child. I don't agree with it by the way, but you're giving that child essentially. A free pass straight to heaven. So wouldn't it be again, I'm not agreeing with this. This is just how my mind was ticking over as a young person.
Like what the crap, this makes no sense. Wouldn't it be the kindest thing to [00:24:00] do for that child for that baby is to have an abortion because then they're so go straight to heaven. I never could reconcile that again. I don't agree with abortion. I don't have abortions. I'm not advocating for abortions.
I'm just saying. You could pick holes at that religious view because. Then they don't that child doesn't go through whole, a life experience. To then essentially make the wrong decisions and end up in hell. Right? If that's the way that you view things, I don't. But if you do. Wouldn't the kindness thing to be is to fall pregnant as many times as you possibly can, but abort them all because then you've put as many kids as you possibly can into heaven. Right. I just think that's a little bit of a. A few little holes there in that just a few little holes. We should probably discuss at some point. Couldn't wrap my head around it.
Do I advocate for it? No. I don't think that [00:25:00] we get a right to take somebody else's life. Another human being's life. Even if you think that they're coming into a situation that is not particularly. The best, like if you think I can't afford this right. Do we get a right to take that child's life. No
I think that we choose our existence before we even come into here. I think we choose our parents. I think we choose our siblings. I think we choose some of our life experiences as a way of. Helping us to grow as a soul, as our evolution, as a soul. So. Essentially, this is just how this is just how my mind ticks over.
I'm rambling now. But essentially then if someone is choosing to be your child, Right they've chosen that existence. And I think if we take that from them, we're taking, we're robbing them of the experience of. That human experience, that evolution for their soul. So that's, that's where my mind goes with that.
[00:26:00] But again, I have no fricking clue. I have no clue about anything. Let's be honest. I have a million questions and I always say I have zero goddamn answers. I'm just, I'm full of questions and I don't have a lot of answers and that pisses me off and it drives me to ask even more questions. And get more. Not answered, but that's just where I sit with it all.
And I appreciate everyone's comments. Let me see if there's any more.
I actually can't see anymore. God. I am so surprised. Uh, how little comments I got from the episode? Cause that was pretty controversial topic. Um, part of it is probably because I haven't responded. Normally I go in and I engage with people straight away, but. I haven't had the chance. So I'm going to go back and respond to everybody now, but thank you so much for your comments.
There might be more on Tik TOK, but this episode is getting a bit long. So I'll leave them for another episode. Thank you so much, legends. I know it's an uncomfortable conversation. I don't judge you if you've had an abortion or if you're considering an abortion, I'm not [00:27:00] judging you. I'm genuinely not.
I think that judgment. Just does nothing to help. Don't get me wrong. I can judge people in life. I'm a judgy person, right?
I own that. I'm not pretending that I hold no judgements. I hold judgments. But they're not your usual judgment judgments. I'm the type of individual that would judge maybe certain behaviors and stuff because I'm projecting my own shit onto that individual. That came up recently in coaching something.
I was projecting on someone close to me and it was something I was judging in that individual. And it was just me projecting my own bullshit onto them. But I'm not the type that'll judge. Like if someone starts a business and is like, you know, selling and promoting and all of that, I am the biggest motherfucking cheerleader for that individual.
Like. You know how you have friendship groups, where if someone's going for it and giving something their all, or maybe they start, or they join an M and M L M whatever they called. I'm not in one, but. I support that individual. I might go for it, go for your [00:28:00] dreams, go for gold, try a million different things.
Go for it. Like I championed that I don't judge that I can be judgy when it comes to my own shit projecting on to individuals, but I'm not judging you is what I'm saying. If you have had an abortion, I. I'm not. I'm really not, as I said, if I'd walked in your shoes, I would have done the same thing.
Okay. I just personally don't have them and it's governed a lot of things in my life and made me very particular about who I have sex with, because if I'm falling pregnant to that, dude, We are keeping that child. And that's a heavy thing. If that guy is an utter fucking wanker and you're like, God, he would be a shitty father.
Well, I'm not going to sleep with him. I'm not going to sleep with him. And you don't know that straight up when you meet people. Hence why I don't sleep with people when I first meet them. Like it does govern things. Does that mean I'm missing out? Maybe I don't feel like I am, but maybe I am. Maybe I'm missing out on some of the widest sex in my life.
Right? That's another thing. There are pros and cons to [00:29:00] everything. Everything. Yeah. Anyhow. We'll stop there. I love you guts. Thank you for being here, legends. I could just chat your head off all day. Have an awesome week. Bye.
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