Ep. 38 | Exposing the System: Melissa Hiemann on Infiltrating Institutions, Radical Parenting, and Living Outside the Box
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Speaker: Hollie Wild
Speaker 2: Melisssa Hiemann
Speaker: [00:00:00] I am so excited for this conversation today. We have. The awesome Melissa is actually I should have asked you first. Is it Melissa Hiemann? And my pronouncing? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Even though it's like a female organ. Yeah.
Speaker: MelissHiemannan. She's a bloody power house. So Melissa is the co founder of the centre for healing, which side note, I have studied through.
She's a therapist and a coach who specializes in assisting practitioners, therapists, healers, and coaches in learning life changing transformative methods, whilst creating a thriving business for themselves. Growing up in DV and stressful environments, which we'll get into, she found herself on a path of destructive behaviors and patterns.
In an effort to improve herself and release her addictions, she sorted an alternative route to healing and has not looked back since. She teamed up with [00:01:00] Ryan in 2016 and they opened up an in person centre and built and trained a team assisting people in their addiction and mental health programs. With exceptional results.
She has an advanced diploma in international business, neuro linguistic programming, timeline, hypnotherapy, and soul realignment practitioner. Holy cow, what have you not done? She's also the creator and IICT accredited head trainer for trauma informed manifestation coaching. And root cause therapy practitioner training, which I have done that one.
And it's incredible. She's also the author of the book, the natural high secrets to overcoming instant gratification and finding inner peace. She's also a mom to Tommy brave and their pup sky. So first of all, what the crap? You are such a powerhouse. Welcome to the podcast. It's so good to have you here.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. That's awesome to be on.
Speaker: It's I don't know for you, if someone [00:02:00] read that out aloud about me, I'd be so bloody proud. Like you really are. I don't, when I say powerhouse, like I legit mean it, you really are a powerhouse. You just, you just go all guns blazing. Don't you? I
Speaker 2: don't know when people say that, or they say they're inspired by me.
I'm like, really? Why? Like, I'm like, I, I don't know, for some reason, I'm just like, well, someone be like, you're really successful. And I'm like, am I? Because I feel like I'm only In the early stages of my journey, so to me, I'm not like, to me, I'm not there, even though like, I'm so appreciative and I do know, like, we've made a really big impact already, but for me, like, my vision is so much bigger.
So when people say that, I'm like, whatever, like.
Speaker: And it's funny because you're in the day to day of it all as well. So sometimes like we, we can forget to take like the, what is it? The bird's eye view of our life and be like, yeah, holy crap. Like, look what I have created. Look what I've done, but yeah, you should be so proud.
I want to start off by, so obviously [00:03:00] when I introduced you, we touched on very briefly on a little bit of your life story and like your upbringing. Can you just explain to us? Or, you know, as much as you wanna share about your upbringing and what led you into the work that you do now and the empire that you are creating essentially.
Speaker 2: Yes, sure. So, yeah, my parents had quite an age gap and also a cultural gap, so. My mom was from Sri Lanka and she'd just come here when she was like 20 to live with her auntie to study. And then my dad already had two previous marriages and he was about 50. So he was 50 and she was 20 when they were kind of like, wow, she made yeah.
And they had me and I think, yeah, with the cultural differences and you know, my dad was this like. partying friendly German that was like, he'd be out every weekend and my poor mom didn't know what was going on. She'd just come from like boarding school and like, and and also there's like other generational stuff.
Like [00:04:00] he was really lovely, but she came from a DV background and to her, I guess her nervous system, that wasn't normal to have like a sweet man look after you. And so at about two and a half, I think yeah, my mom left my dad and they both got into other relationships that were unfortunately quite abusive, narcissistic relationships.
And so I grew up really feeling like every home that I was in, I was walking on eggshells. I was anxious and I didn't feel safe. And, you know, being in the late 80s, there was not much from my family, anyway, emotional support or anyone asking like how I am or, and things like that. And then I went to school and really struggled at school as well, was all alone and bullied for basically all of primary school.
And yeah, so that was my upbringing. So by the time I became a teen, I like had all of these suppressed emotions, all of, you know, this programming and stuff and bad experiences and trauma and things I witnessed that I just. [00:05:00] I turned to substances, like I started rebelling, I started wagging school, I failed year 9 and 10 from wagging most of it just being with the wrong crowd, but to me it felt good, like I actually, oh, this feels nice, you know, taking drugs and alcohol and things like that actually.
That was my kind of like, Oh, this is the only way I can feel good. So that was kind of like, yeah, my upbringing part of the story.
Speaker: Wow. That that's a lot, especially if such a young person, like that would have been devastating. Did you say two and a half, they separated? Yeah. And so then having obviously the two families and then the whole school bullying, it's a lot for a young person to handle and to process essentially all on your own as well.
Yeah.
And I can imagine that that would have led to, yeah. So as you said, like alcohol and, and wagging school and, and all that kind of stuff. And then where from there. So, cause right now [00:06:00] your life seems very like vastly different to all of that.
Speaker 2: If I can be an inspiration to anyone, it's just for that, that I, yeah, I, yeah.
So then I, you know, repeated what I saw, like photocopied, basically my childhood got in quite toxic relationships, abusive relationships.
so I, I got to the point when I was about 25, 26, I was like. I had basically hit rock bottom. I had left another guy, but I had to sell my house. I was having an affair, you know, everything on the outside looked good.
I always had this drive. But I sabotaged everything. And so when I, I just remember I was in my one bedroom apartment, another relationship had failed. I was smoking weed. I was drinking wine. I was chain smoking. I was like, looking out at the ocean thinking, Why everything on my, the outside of my life looks so good, but I feel so bad on the inside.
Like, I just really had this like defining moment in [00:07:00] my deep heartbreak. And I was like, I think that I need to go get help. And my previous iterations of trying to get help was just like sharing with friends, or I tried to see a school counselor and felt like I was talking to the wall, to be honest. That was my experience.
And no one, you know, with all my rebelling, no one asked what was happening at home. Like, I couldn't believe it. Like,
Speaker: you know,
Speaker 2: looking back, it's like really astonishing to me. But yeah, I. And then I told a friend, he goes, we have a mutual friend. You've met him before. He's a life coach, blah, blah, blah.
I was like, yeah, I'll have a chat to him. Like not knowing what it was. And yeah, I went into that session and a lot of what I teach now, I, you know, I, I got in that session as well. It was like really going, Oh, your past does affect you and you Kind of being a victim to your reality now and waiting for someone to come save you still.
And it's time to take radical responsibility and start healing. And I walked out of that [00:08:00] session. Oh, I would say awakened or, you know, had a whole different lens on my life and realization. And I, all of a sudden I had the key to start making change in my life and not long. And at the time I was Doing a sales job because I knew I wanted to start a business.
I didn't know what it was. I was waiting for that someone to tell me I was good enough and give me an opportunity, but it was really, I had to take action for that inspiration to come in and I ended up studying an LP and things like that. And I remember halfway through that training, like it hit me.
It's like, yes. We do get in our own way and our past does affect us. And I want to help people as well, because as soon as I realized that, and I shifted that I had a business on the back burner for like a year that I hadn't taken action on all of a sudden in two weeks, I had created the product, imported it and started selling it.
And I was like, Oh, I was literally, I just had fear of failure or whatever the limiting beliefs were that I picked up along my journey growing up being told that I [00:09:00] was dumb, all of these things. So, yeah, that was like amazing for me and I really found my purpose. So that was back in 2014, I think.
And yeah, so yeah, I just didn't stop from there. All of a sudden I was passionate. about reading. I had got rid of half of my friends straight away. I had books all around me. I hadn't read a book probably through all of high school and I was like surrounded all of a sudden and just like give me all the information and yeah, 10 years now I haven't stopped since.
Just, I'm just so passionate about it and helping other people.
Speaker: And what you've created like legit is changing lives. That's like, I can say this from firsthand experience, having one studied root cause therapy, one of the programs, the courses that you offer, and then also using it with my clients and seeing the transformations in their lives.
Like it's, it's actually. Even more powerful than what I thought that it was going to be. And I already had like really good high expectations and it just far exceeded that. [00:10:00] Because even just for example, like with a particular client of mine that springs to mind that I, that I use root cause therapy with him, he was like a highly functioning.
Very successful, very fit and healthy guy in his late thirties, like everything going for him. But he had this extremely high anxiety and it was unexplainable because like everything in his life, it wasn't quite adding up. And. He's like, I feel like a pressure cooker. I feel like I'm literally going to explode and I don't know why.
And it's just like, I can't like, I'm not coping and I'm trying everything. He's very health conscious, was doing all the right, you know, so called right things that were all contributing and helping, but nothing was, nothing was getting there. And in just, it was literally like five, six sessions of root cause therapy that you created.
He went from rating his anxiety at like 10 out of 10 to a one out of 10 in just a matter of a week. Nothing changed outwardly. He was doing all the [00:11:00] same things outwardly. Nothing changed in his relationship. Like nothing like that. It was all just. Going to the root cause of emotional wounds from his past that some of them he'd consciously forgotten about, but his body obviously hadn't.
And yeah, I, I just can't praise enough what you've created because I've actually seen it have a huge impact and even on myself as well. So what I would say what led you to create, for instance, that particular course in particular? for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker: root cause work.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, like I said, that first session that I ever experienced it's taken a little bit from there.
So in there, it was NLP and timeline. So that's inside root cause therapy. But I actually, When I started my coaching business on my own, I was initially helping entrepreneurs because as you were saying earlier, I've got a diploma in international business. So I was doing that initially. And then I met another [00:12:00] healer and basically the universe is like, you've got to move in with her.
So I moved to Port Melbourne and then another healer came on board and we lived together for a year and we worked on each other and we taught each other for a whole year. Yeah.
Speaker: Wow. What an experience.
Speaker 2: And one of them, um, specialized in philosophy and religion and the conscious mind. I was like specializing in the, the subconscious mind and unconscious mind and the other healers specializing in the super conscious and the spirit and the inner child.
And so. We were sharing like all of our knowledge together. We, and we all walked away after that year with our own methodologies, having like worked on each other, worked in ourselves and educated each other. So that's where it kind of came from, but we didn't actually name it root cause therapy. Ryan and I just started the mental health and addiction programs as.
You might already know Ryan's story. I helped him give up methamphetamines and [00:13:00] GHB in one session the day after I watched a lecture about how to heal addictions from an energetic point of view. So it was just so synchronistic, but starting our mental health and addiction program, we just called them programs that we were doing this therapy and It is a mixture of life coaching, like the way that we use the testing sheet, kinesiology, working with limiting beliefs and then also somatic work and working with the body.
And so we can somatically, yeah, release those negative charges and emotions. So I really. Built upon and accelerated and changed in like really positive ways and amalgamated a lot of really transformational therapies were out there that did need an update. So that's how it came about. And then when we decided to, after four and a half years of having the in person centre, we're like, My intuition is like, you have to move online.
You have to teach people. Like people have been asking us all the time. Can you teach us this method? I'm like, no. [00:14:00] But Ryan actually came up with the name because it's a wording in the script that we use. and I agreed cause I was going to call it emotional healing therapy, I think. And he's like, no, you have to call it root cause therapy.
So yeah, we, that's how it came about. And so we registered that and got it accredited. And yeah. Here we are now we've got thousands of students around the world and we've got other trainings now too that take a slightly different approach. And yeah, it's just been like amazing actually to witness ourselves doing that in a sense, or to witness the community grow as well in itself and to see so many like minded people connect around the world as well.
So that's been incredible.
Speaker: Yeah. And you mentioned Ryan, so just so everyone understands who is Ryan to you.
Speaker 2: So this is slightly controversial seeings we're on a controversial podcast, well, when I first met him, I think it was like 2000, early [00:15:00] 2014 or late 2013, we were both doing a talk. We didn't know each other doing a talk at a doctor's, but we didn't know each other.
He was talking about, he was selling some affiliate marketing, like nutrition, whatever supplement. And I was starting my life coaching business. And we just had a mutual friend that invited us. Spoke and we both like had a connection and we, we kind of caught up a few times after that. And I thought we went on a date, but he, I think he was just trying to sell me.
Because I rocked up in a dress. He's like, come to this Spanish bar. I rocked up in a dress and he's like in his shorts and like, like, and I'm like, What's up? I didn't know if he was just a bit bogany. Like he had a, he had a year as well. He was a tradie. So I'm like, what's happening here. Like, anyway, we never hooked up or anything, but then like a year later, I was living with those healers.
And that day I had just learned how to do distance healing and I just felt called to go online. And I saw [00:16:00] his. him come up on messenger, like he was there and I clicked it. I'm like, hello, like this guy. And he's like, and I could feel him because I just learned how to like feel other people at distance.
I'm like, oh gosh. And I said, what's going on? Like if I can feel you, like you're in pain or he goes, I have like a whole story to tell you. He's like, I can't remember exactly what you do, but can I come and see you on Friday for a session? I'm like, yeah. And so he came and saw me, came to put Melbourne on Friday and Yeah, it was an incredible like he walked in.
I didn't recognize him. Like he was 15 kilos lighter. He was all dirty. His clothes are all ripped. And I found out that that day that I met him, he just found out that his wife cheated on him. And in that time, they went through a divorce and then he, he was recreationally using drugs, but he was someone similar to me.
He didn't really have a traumatic upbringing. Like similar to mine, but in his own way, he had a lot of [00:17:00] anxiety and he would do, and he didn't know how to cope with how he was feeling with the divorce. He ended up in a drug den, dating a dealer. Yeah, just like. using every day and wrote off his car, was in jail, like all these things.
And so when he walked in internally, I was like, Oh, like what do I do? Like, I was like, what happened to this dude? And then the other, my, my inner voice is like, you've got this, like, you've just learned this. And, but I also had already put the whole method together. So I was able to take him through, explain to him, take him through the whole process.
It was like a three hour session and yeah, by the end he never used GHB or ICE again. And so he started sending me his friends and I was like working with them and then that's When we transitioned, he was like, Hey, I'd really love to do this. Can you train me? And, and do you want to start a centre together?
So that's
Speaker: amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh, and now just like fast forward, we, and [00:18:00] after six months of me, like you're my business partner and you are my client. I was like, okay, we can get together now. I was like, he was waiting the poor guy. Ready. And then we've since had a little boy and we've been together about eight years now and he's amazing.
Like I'm still like, he's the most incredible person I've ever met. And I feel like we've been together for only a year. Like I'm just like obsessed with him.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, that is so beautiful to hear. And one of the things I love about you guys is in some ways you are unconventional. You like. Blaze your own trail and how you want to do things.
I'd love for you to go there and how you make your relationship be whatever you want it to be, not what society deems it has to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, even I'll talk about the business being controversial. Like we saw that in the market, the gap in the market was like, you, you know, if you have an addiction, you either go to rehab, private is like people taking out their super.
Or you go [00:19:00] to a hospital bed and you have to like detox and then you do like AA and look, there's like benefits to all of those things. But for us, we saw a gap in the market, like people wanting proper deep trauma healing, like alternative meth. As soon as they said we're an alternative outpatient addiction rehab people like hallelujah and coming to us and like you can step on the outside and be like people, we should change that.
We should change that. Like. We, I mean, people like gave us crap. They were like, doctors are like yelling at us. Like, what are we doing? But if you want to change something, you've got to infiltrate the system and change it. Like you've got to be the change, not just talk about it.
Speaker: And so
Speaker 2: even us, like, even now people like are you a psychologist, how can you be teaching methods?
We teach, we, our students, some of our students are psychologists and counselors, we're just lived experience. So we're just creating our own methods, like. And we're like, it's like, we know that they're amazing and we know that they're helping people. And so I think that [00:20:00] has allowed us to do, like, it's a bit controversial.
It's a bit like, yeah, we're risk takers. Like obviously our backgrounds are in addiction. So, but we know it's making a positive impact. So we keep going, but yeah, the same with our relationship, like, so I always wanted to co sleep with my son and that just happened earlier because I just started snoring at like eight, nine, eight months pregnant and Ryan's like a really light sleeper.
So I ended up in the nursery where I already had a double bed set up ready to go to co sleep. And but then we just found it really worked well for us where like, we still don't sleep in the same beds. Even when we go on holidays, we have separate rooms and our relationship is amazing. Our sex life is fine.
We just, I have to say that to people. I feel like they're worried. I'm like, I think like old people do it. Like they realize they didn't need to sleep next to each other that whole time if they don't want to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know, we've had people organize trips for us and I'm like, you have to get two hotel rooms.[00:21:00]
They're like, what? We're like, we need our own space. Like we work together. We're in each other's faces all day. Like we need our own things. We need our own space. And that's been like really good because I initially, like when my son was one, I was like, well, if one of us is. There's no point in both of us not getting sleep.
We've got to have at least one person in the house that's getting proper sleep. Yes. Oh, I
Speaker: so
agree. So agree. I love that like, there is this thing of how a relationship is apparently meant to look. It's like there's rule books for what you can and can't do, you know, behaviors that you are allowed to have and what you're not allowed to have.
And I'm all for making your relationship be how you two want it to be, like, and whatever that is, like, however that works. If that means sleeping in separate rooms, it means sleeping in separate rooms. And that does not mean you now have a shit sex life. If anything, it probably spices it up more, to be honest.
But even like with the co sleeping, like, that is seen as [00:22:00] so controversial. I co slept with my little girl from, God, like seven weeks old. Because I tried the bassinet thing. I tried right, right next to me. She just, she's one of those babies that just wanted to be on me or next to me at all times. Like hated the pram, hated the car, didn't want to sleep on her own.
And I was like, Oh my God, we are not getting sleep. This is not working for anybody. And co slept with her from like seven weeks. It was the best thing. Like absolutely loved it. And yeah, I'm all for, just do what works for you as parents do what works for you in your relationship. I don't care how controversial it's deemed, like, it's for you.
I,
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, Holly, but you know, even at the mothers group, like I went to the mothers group and the, the nurse that was leading it was going on about how it's really unsafe to co sleep and it's blah, blah, this, blah, blah, blah. And, I, me, like, I'm just like, it was quite a big group of mums.
It was 25 of us in a big [00:23:00] circle and I just put my hand up and I said, I just want to like let everyone know you're all probably going to end up co sleeping at some point, especially if you're breastfeeding. Like, it's very natural. Every mammal does it. Yeah. Like it's very normal. And they're crying when they're away from you because it's actually not normal.
normal, like even the animal kingdom gets that intuitively and Asian countries, they think it's crazy. You would put your baby in like another room. And and there's like been studies in Japan about co sleeping, how it's actually like safer and things like that. And so I said, why not? Instead of just demonizing co sleeping, why not just teach us how to do it safely?
Because again, everyone is going to end up doing it. There's ways that you can have the blankets or, you know, have the bed against the wall and, you know, the things on the side or don't have plushies and things like that.
She wasn't having it, but I was just glad I said it to everyone. And, you know, a few mums said to me later, Oh, that's, Oh, I can't believe [00:24:00] you said something that's so good that you did because actually I have been co sleeping and I'm like, of course you fucking have, like, look at monkeys.
It's like, they're like a touch of their boob hanging off them all day. Like, we're not paying for it, you know, it's just Western, like getting everyone to be so independent so early and crying and out and all this crap. It's ruining, it's everyone's mental health is effed because of that now. Yeah. You know, do what intuitively feels right for you.
And some babies prefer not to sleep with you. They might be hot or they might prefer the bassinet and that's fine too. There's nothing wrong, but like, don't shame yourself or feel bad if you're doing things that feel right for you. You know, cause even some of the moms were like. doing sleep training, like with this three month olds and they'll, and I'm like, I asked them, I'm like, how do you feel when they're like crying in the room?
And like, why don't you, like, it's awful. I'm like, well, why don't you listen to that? Like, there's a reason why we have that feeling, you know, you're getting that feedback. So, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So well said. And that would have been very ballsy to [00:25:00] do that in a group of mothers. And you're right though, it's, it's like, do what works for you and what feels right for you with your children.
I'm all for that. Like, listen to. The mother's intuition is so important or both parents, but like, listen to the mother's intuition. Like we just know stuff about our children that sometimes we can't explain. We just know it's just a gut feeling. I've had that numerous times, even discharging myself from hospital because we ended up giving birth in hospital and discharging myself because I didn't agree with something that they wanted to do with my daughter and ended up being that I was right.
And I'm so. So glad I listened to my gut, but I had to literally sign a form to discharge myself from the hospital or they weren't going to let me go. And it's just like, just, yeah, my biggest message is like, listen to your gut as a parent and with anything in life, really, even if it's the most controversial thing out there.
What is seen as controversial today probably isn't going to be seen as controversial in the future.
Speaker 2: Exactly. We had that exact experience with not [00:26:00] vaccinating, you know, not, you know, at birth or like the vaccination thing. Like I, you know, even when I was pregnant, they were trying to vaccinate me and, and things like that.
And I just said, no. And so for me to get to that point was a journey of like finding my voice, not worrying about ruffling feathers, not worrying about how people are looking at me and really connecting with that inner voice and advocating for myself and my child or for my dog, for instance, you know, whoever, like I'm advocating, like I will stand up because no one stood up for me.
You know, and so when, you know, the, the nurses and the doctors will look at you like you are a terrible parent and like, Oh my God, but what about their, this and that? This is pre COVID. So I feel like I had it extra hard when it was happening because It wasn't as like you said, when controversial things to come normal later, it wasn't normalized yet that you could say, I don't want the vaccine.
Yeah. Yeah. I [00:27:00] was just like a terrible mother and putting my son in danger. And and yeah, but I really like made sure that if anyone asked or anything like that, I stood my ground. Even if they're like, you've got to speak to the immunologist at the Royal Children's, I'm like, they're just going to tell me to take it.
Like,
Speaker: yeah,
Speaker 2: like I just, it was a whole thing, but my son hasn't missed out on anything. And, and one of my other friends who just had a child was checking all this with me because she's like, I don't want my daughter to miss out. No one asked for a vaccination to get swimming lessons.
No one asked for a vaccination to do dancing lessons. Yeah. No one asked for a vaccination And instead of normal kinder and childcare, which can be harder to get into, or you might not have alternative ones in your area. We did Bush kindy and forest school. Like I made sure that I was very intentional about changing our lives.
So I could be there for my son. Cause that felt right for me not to put him in childcare and kinder anyway. So it was absolutely, and I love being in [00:28:00] nature anyway. So I would go with him, you know, to the Bush kindy and forest school. And he would, he learned how to do woodworking at like three years old, how to light a fire, what the aboriginals did to bring up their children.
Like I was, I was like. Excuse me, like, tell, like, I was like, this is amazing. All stopped, you know, going out to the reef and learning the, the biology of like the sea creatures. And, you know, it was incredible. So I, and then now, and then they over in Victoria, anyway, they can just get into school anyway. And, and I'm very, I never hide it.
Like I tell everyone, oh, you know, he's like not used to being in a classroom because we didn't do kinder and childcare because he wasn't vaccinated. But. Again, people are more like After, since COVID, they're just a bit more open to, oh yeah, you just chose. You know, that's fine. That's like normalized now.
And so that, that, and he's been fine, like touch wood, obviously. I can't find any real wood around me, but yeah, he's [00:29:00] been absolutely fine. And he's got a fairly strong immune system. And so, yeah, it's just been great.
And he's the only kid in his class that can sit there and listen to the teacher the whole time, like all the other kids don't, and I'm not saying it's because of that. I don't know if it is related, but he can sit there for hours like, and he'll like concentrate. And
Speaker: yeah, I find that's a common thing actually.
And I know this will be deemed as controversial. I understand that. But like, The alertness level in children that are unvaccinated is insane. Like how high, how high they're like, just so alert. It's something that I keep hearing and keep seeing, and look, I'm with you on all of this. And same with my journey, when I was pregnant, the amount of things that I said no to, and I think it does come down to self trust and like self authority.
And I, I talk about this all the time on the podcast. That's the whole purpose of this podcast is to like lead people back into themselves To be self governing to make decisions. That's right for us, no matter how controversial they [00:30:00] are or, you know, what label gets put onto us. But I do think that you can strengthen that as well.
The more that you actually listen to yourself and follow through and actually like respect yourself in that decision, the stronger that voice gets and the stronger that intuition gets. And. Yeah, I would say that the childhood vaccine schedule, in my opinion, has become absolutely nuts. And it does not, this is just my opinion.
I'm not putting this on you, but it does not reflect even what it was like for us as children, for instance, like it's nuts. It's absolutely insane. And it should be absolutely overhauled I think personally, it's teaching children to not trust their bodies.
It's teaching them to. rely on something outside of themselves for their health instead of just for emergency situations. Like one thing that I'm really big on teaching my daughter is your body can heal itself. Your body is so strong and she talks to her body and and like as if You know, she believes that 100%.
If she's feeling slightly unwell, [00:31:00] she says, it's okay, buddy, I've got you. Like she actually talks to her body. And I just think, Oh my God, if every child had this, like, Oh, like just that innate trust in that she believes in it. And then, you know, in emergency situations, of course, that's what the medical system is there for.
But yeah, we've
Speaker 2: needed it and used it. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. But I just think that like, we've gone so far from That self trust and that self authority and it's gotten to places now where I think we outsource a lot of a lot of that onto systems outside of ourselves. And yeah, that's why I appreciate you being so open like that.
Because yeah, you do get mocked online or you do get ridiculed. You do get a lot of hate like for saying things like this because it is very different to the norm. But I just think that this was once the norm and yeah, it just, it just needs an overhaul in my opinion. That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
Like, even as a kid, I I remember getting maybe one or two when I was [00:32:00] really little, but like, I I would run away. Like, I don't think I got most of my vaccinations as a kid. I would go, I knew it was vaccine day. I don't know how I intuitively knew that I would run away. So I haven't had half the ones in childhood either to be honest.
But yeah, I think that, you know, even my son, he's like, Oh, I'm like, what happened at school today? And he'll be like, Oh, I was just, you know, sitting with the teacher waiting for the, all the boys to calm down. And he was just sitting next to the teacher. And I'm like, who has that level of just like calmness and presence?
As a five year old, like this is like, and we do the same where like, if he's cut himself and then he starts healing, we're like, wow, your body is so good at healing or you're so fast. You're so quick, you know, and letting him know and realizing that. And yeah, so it's really empowering for them as well, because.
They can learn self advocacy as well. You know, it's just like when [00:33:00] we're at a restaurant, I remember when I was younger and one of our friends was quite outspoken and she'll be like, Oh, saying something about a meal, like to the waitress. And we're like, Oh, I'm so sorry. And now she was the bomb, like early on, like, you need to speak up for yourself.
You need to advocate yourself. And so over time, going from a quiet people, pleaser you know, putting on a mask to now like, No, if I'm not happy with something, I'm just going to say it. And whether I come across as annoying or rude, that doesn't override the fact that I can self advocate or say what I need.
And I'm not being annoying and I'm just, and like you said, over time, like it gets easier and easier to like, it's a public, you can just say what you're thinking, you know, and be comfortable with that in yourself.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, we, we were trying to say it before, like in a passive aggressive way or like, yeah, just not respecting ourselves and protecting [00:34:00] ourselves, as you said.
And so that's a part of the journey too. And that's what I love about healing too. It does unleash some of that.
Speaker: I
Speaker 2: agree.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Fully. I think the more kind of like, Yeah. And not in an addictive way of like, you've got to do more and more and more, but when you do work on yourself and do that in a healing and get to the root cause, rather than just talk about it for 20 years, like it, it doesn't just affect one little area of your life.
Like the impact is. It's huge. Even like you've just said, like being able to be more outspoken and be more like authentically you essentially like wherever you are, you are, you are you like, it doesn't matter who you're around you are you. And I think that comes from inner healing, which brings us full circle back to the work that you do in the company that you've created, like the impact on people's lives.
It's not just for instance, helping with a drug addiction or, you know, Okay. whatever it might be, overcoming trauma from the past. It affects every area of that person's life and then the ripple effect into their [00:35:00] family members and their friends and their community. Like it's, it's huge when we actually do work on ourselves and go within.
That's why I love the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And it is really about like, you know, we might think, Oh, doing some healing work, it's not a big deal. I'll give you an example. I received, I, receive root cause therapy sessions. Like, oh, I might choose you one day, Holly. I randomly choose a student and I pay for a program.
And because I think it's important. Well, I just love the therapy to be honest. Like I, but I think it's important that I continue to receive and give. But I realized that something that I needed to work on was like, I was sometimes doing it from a really emotionally charged place. For example, one of my friends was going through a DV situation.
Of course, that was a big trigger for me because of my background.
Speaker: And,
Speaker 2: I was really like laying into her though, cause I could see it going back into the pattern again. And I was really doing it. Not my other friends are like, you've got to be more [00:36:00] compassionate. And I love my friends. Cause we're quite direct with each other.
And I'm like, I don't know why I can't be compassionate. Like, I just want to. I can shake her and like wake her up and I was getting like the things that I was saying was quite stabby in a sense, like quite hurtful. But, and then when I, I addressed that with my root cause therapist and I'm like, look, I think there's something there because I'm feeling very chargey about it.
I'm feeling very intense about it. And I'm not being a kind. nice person. Like, I still want to say, speak my truth to my friend, but I just want to do it in a more compassionate way. And then when I have the session, I actually went back to when I was two and a half. And when my parents remarried off, I saw them that they had chosen not great partners.
And my way of trying to make them feel better while I saw them in these shit relationships was trying to be the best good little girl that I could be trying to, so they could at least be happy with me. And so I was trying to manipulate them, but I had all this suppressed anger [00:37:00] and like, what are you doing?
Like, I had all of that suppressed energy, like, why are you with this person? And so what happened is, as I've had that over the years and I kept, I kept attracting so many people that were going through that, these DV situations and abusive relationships. It built up, that fire built up over so many years and that emotional charge got stronger and stronger to my poor friend that got it from me.
And yeah, And so by healing that literally a day or two after that, I completely calmed down. I was completely like neutral about it, and I apologized to her for the way that I said it, but I still stood my ground as to like, I'm your friend, I freaking care about you, and I don't want you to go through this again, and there's kids involved and stuff like that.
And I, my, my whole energy and demeanor and the way that I'm being as a person, not just for myself, but in my family, like when you're like that, it affects everyone around you. And then anyone that I interact with in the community, like, that [00:38:00] energy affects people and the way that I'm being like inverted commas, passionate, but like actually really emotionally charged and dysregulated.
And so when you heal, you are actually healing those around you and the community. And if all of us could do a bit of healing work, not saying there's anything wrong with us, but just so we can be more regulated and present and kinder and be able to speak our truth from like a really gentle place,
Speaker: the
Speaker 2: world will become a better place.
You know, a
Speaker: hundred percent because often we're like, Oh, we might look out on the world and be like, Oh my gosh, there's so much craziness going on. There's a lot of darkness going on. How can I possibly do anything of good? That's going to help. I'm going to have any impact. And I think that is how we do, like we focus on ourselves and, and, you know, working on ourselves and coming home to ourselves.
And then the ripple effect of that is literally changing the world. Like your company is changing the world. Which is, yeah, which is really exciting. I just had something pop in my [00:39:00] head, literally on the spot. If you can't think of anything, don't worry. I was just thinking what's one of the craziest like client sessions you've had or client transformations that you've had, or like something that's come up in a session that has like not left you.
If there's anything that comes to mind, sorry, you've had, yeah,
Speaker 2: no, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, I did have a client come in when we have the actual physical centre in Southeast Melbourne and he was a lovely guy. He, but he had been having addictions and daily usage of alcohol and drugs for about 15 years straight and pills.
Yeah. He was quite high functioning, but. You know, just on the edge of not functioning that well, but still functioning. And yeah, after one session, and I'm not saying this is typical results, because we normally see people like you were saying earlier, between one and eight sessions, sometimes 12 is ideal.
And then of course you can do like ongoing monthly ones. But yeah, within one or two sessions, he [00:40:00] literally stopped all of his addictions. And and it was In that session, the main thing that shifted him was a few shameful secrets that he had that he was holding on to consciously and some that weren't and being able to release that shame and that guilt helped so much.
And it's not saying that we shouldn't have shame and guilt because all the emotions are there for a reason, but him bottling that up created walls in his life. And it kind
Speaker: of
Speaker 2: falls in his relationship with his family and his partner and everything like that. And being able to just reveal that and have a safe space to share that with that to reveal itself and to be able to process that in his body completely change everything.
And he, so that would have been back in, I don't know, 2017 or 18. He still sends me people like he's still messaging me. Like he's still great. Like, yeah, he's yeah. And that was like, he's [00:41:00] like, I don't know how you did it. I don't know. He couldn't quite grasp it, but he, but he's like still amazed. And yeah, he, he's always like, you know, in my mind and he wrote us a beautiful review and everything, and I appreciate him so much and it's people like that, where sometimes I see them and I'm like, Oh, I don't really know if they're open to it and then they completely shift.
And like you said, Holly, it's, it's not always about addictions. And such. The one that come to mind because even my own one where I was like a bit funny with my friend about something. It can be little things as well. But yeah, that one really is a beautiful memory for me.
Speaker: Yeah. And it kind of highlights, I think also There is a mass emphasis in society on only trust someone who's in a white lab coat or only trust someone who has a 10 year triple degree or something with a million certificates on the wall or, you know, only trust someone who Works for a pharmaceutical funded government agency, or you know what I [00:42:00] mean?
Like, yeah, there is such an emphasis. And yes, obviously, I'm not putting down, you know, education, I'm not putting down, you know, research and all that kind of stuff. There's there's a place for it all. But I think we can have so much emphasis on only trusting that and outsourcing all to that, that then something like, You know, root cause therapy like this, for example, can literally turn something around so quickly rather than, for instance, maybe having to have talk therapy for 20 years, but never actually get to the to the original root cause.
So
yeah,
I'm all for. Yes, there are systems and, you know, things in place that are important, but, you know, alternative has been shunned for so many years for a very particular reason. And that's not a good reason.
Speaker 2: No. And I think you know, we were accredited and everything. Like we have things in place in the courses and you know, other bodies looking at it, but our true essence and our core is lived experience.
Speaker: [00:43:00] Yeah.
Speaker 2: And people that are wanting to like have their own business like you, it's often like who we needed a few years ago, you know, and we do often feel safer with people or like even on Tik Tok, I would rather listen to someone's own experience of healing, whatever, or a health thing than just like reading an article from a scientific website, to be honest.
Like I, I think we're more leaning towards that authenticity and that realness and sharing wisdom with each other.
Speaker: Yeah, a hundred percent. I, yeah, I fully agree with you. And what I wanted to do, I'm going to, in a second, I'm going to ask you a couple of rapid fire questions, but before we get to that, and then I want to know like your social media handles and your website and all that so that, you know, people can look you up and search your courses and that, but is there any question that you wish?
I would have asked you or any topic that you want to cover anything you want to discuss before I throw a couple of rapid fire questions [00:44:00] away. You want to add to anything we've already said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I just like, I think one of the things that I'm kind of. wanting to share at the moment and, and really and it does link in, I guess, of being controversial is just being really like, for us to get to this level where we are now, which, like I said to you before we recorded, I'm like, it feels like I'm just at the start of my journey anyway, but I'm being really intentional with my life, you know?
I'm being really intentional even about my parenting like and being intentional because previous to when I started getting help I was really like listening to other people's advice and I was like what should I do or what do I think society thinks I should do and and I can't choose my destiny. I have to wait for someone to notice me and say I'm good enough and hand me an opportunity.
But once I started to heal and realize I'm the driver of my [00:45:00] ship,
Speaker: I decided
Speaker 2: that I'm going to be really intentional about how my life goes. And being intentional means how you intend your life to go, how you would. Like things to go. And so my intent say with my son was like, I want to change our business so I can be at home with him and he doesn't have to go to childcare.
And that's just like a personal preference. With that intention, then different action steps and sometimes courage needs to be taken, or I was very intentional. I wanted to be successful and work for myself. And so with that intention, I saw those opportunities and I took them for myself. I chose myself. I wasn't waiting for someone to say, I'm going to publish your book.
I wrote my own book and self published.
Speaker: Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't waiting for someone to go Oh, I'm going to help you create this course. Can we buy the license to your course? I just made my own course. Like, and I, and I decided to take action towards fulfilling that intention and how I [00:46:00] want my life to go.
And so, you know, I've definitely met people and like, even at our school where they're like, Oh, I don't want to be working and blah, blah, blah. And in the back of my mind, I'm like, well then like, what's your intention? How would you like your life to look and what are you doing to change that?
Speaker: Yeah. So, so freaking well said, so well said often you see, like, if you see someone that's having some level of success in life, whatever that success is, you often will see people comment online saying, Oh, it must be good for you, or it must be easy for you, or, Oh, I wish I had what you had, but they, they don't necessarily want to put in the work or they don't necessarily like they're focused on why it can't work for them rather than how can I make it happen.
And yeah, what you've just said there is so beautiful because you had the intention and then you followed through with the actions of creating life, how you want it to look, not what society tells you it should be. Yeah. Powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And it plays out, as you said, [00:47:00] in every area, like business, relationship, parenting, your health, like literally everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Bloody
Speaker: amazing. All right. A couple of rapid fire questions. You don't have to give long. Explanations, they can be a short So rapid
Speaker 2: fire answers to your rapid fire questions?
Speaker: As long or as short as you want them to be? Just three of them. One, if you could instantly dismantle one institution, which would it be?
Speaker 2: The government.
Speaker: Yeah.
Yes. Please do. Two. What's one piece of mainstream advice you think is actually harmful? I mean, you've already said a few.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. That you just have to listen to your doctor.
Speaker: Hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think especially, sorry, I'm going to extend on this a bit, but especially as women, like we'll go in with premenopausal symptoms or we'll go in with this and that.
Yeah. And it's just like, Or it could be psycho, [00:48:00] um, physical issues. Like we actually, we're just going through a stressful period. Or a traumatic thing in our, and we're having physical issues, you know, they don't ask about that. And I think just asking your doctor, like get other opinions, get at East and Western alternative as well.
Like do it all.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. And number three, what's your boldest prediction for the future of your industry?
Speaker 2: Oh, I think that the insurance companies will. make it harder and harder to do these kind of therapies, especially trauma.
Speaker: And
Speaker 2: I think that we need, I think that it's going to lean towards, eventually it will get so restrictive that we're not actually helping people. And so we need to even be outside of that system of accreditation and insurance.
Speaker: Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. [00:49:00] Wow. Okay. That's just made my mind blown. Cause you don't even think of stuff like that, but, but yeah, like even down to accreditation insurance and yeah, because the, the it's far reaching the influence that for instance, the system, the government, whatever you want to call it, like the ramping down on anything that is seen as, as different to mainstream.
Speaker 2: Exactly. And so even NDIS. Which is the National Disability Scheme here in Australia, or even like our insurance company, we have to take trauma writing off our website. And I said to Ryan, I'm like, my soul is not happy about this because This is the whole reason why we started the centre for Healing because we knew that trauma healing was so important to help people and that, like, I'm not happy about this so I'm like almost at the point where I'm like, I'm, I'm done like just because I had one or two complaints.
From God knows who, like people have ab reactions to any kind of [00:50:00] therapy. Yeah. So the fact that we have to like censor ourselves, like I'm not happy about that and I can just see it happening across the board and just like doing overly just safe talk therapy. It's not going deep enough and yeah, it's a whole thing.
Speaker: God, that could be a whole podcast in and of itself. That's that. Yeah. I'm so intrigued now. I'm like, my mind is like exploding. Thank you. So bloody honest. And so like, yeah, just vulnerable with us and sharing so much. What is the, what is your social media handles, your website, like anything you can share?
And I'll link it in the show notes as well for people to find you and your courses.
Speaker 2: Yes. So, definitely check out us on Instagram. So at the centre for healing and if you're not on Instagram, go to our website, the centre for healing. com. We do offer a free trauma informed certification that anyone can take as in like, you know, police officers, ex police officers People in mental health, [00:51:00] teachers, parents.
We've had about last time I checked about 86, 000 people take this course around the world. And it was
Speaker: one of them. It's incredible. It's so freaking good. That's what got me into them wanting to learn from you guys. Yes.
Speaker 2: I love it. It was kind of like a really controversial kind of like I had to approach Ryan and Matt and be like, I knew you guys really worked hard on this course, but my intuition saying make it for free.
Do you guys mind? I feel like it's going to make a really big impact and it has, and it's even a resource at Victorian university now and it's people, yeah, it's just amazing. So you guys are so welcome to access that. So it's the centre for healing. com forward slash free dash courses, or you can find it on our Instagram link in bio.
Speaker: Awesome. And I'll put that exact link as well in the show notes, because I can't recommend that enough that you could charge so much for that. I was dumbfounded with how much, like how much just gold nuggets and depth of knowledge, and you could tell the [00:52:00] amount of work they put into it. So the fact that it's.
Free is insane. You definitely have to do it. Everyone that's listening, just because it can help in every area of your life. Again, with your parenting, with your relationships, with whatever job you do or work, whatever, like everybody needs to be trauma informed in this day and age. So yeah. I'll definitely put that in there.
And thank you so much again. I'm so grateful to have this conversation with you is such a legend. I know the listeners are going to love you. You're very much in line with the way a lot of the listeners view the world and life and the system and all of that stuff. So yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: It's my absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me on.
THE SHOW
