Ep. 34 | Australian Cult Survivor Speaks: The Shocking Truth Behind a Secretive Community
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Hey legends. I actually just want us to do a very quick intro for this episode. So this episode was actually recorded over a week ago with Hannah, who I personally know she is a friend of mine. I have known her for about seven or eight years at this point. So this episode is her personal story of what she went through in a crazy cult here in Australia.
When we recorded, we mentioned the name of the cult, and we also mentioned the name of the accused. So the person. It'll all make sense when you listen in this ended up being a court case that spanned on and off over 11 years. Hannah goes into it all. And the accused was charged twice. He then kept re appealing it and would get off on technicalities that had nothing to do with the actual case itself and the details of the case and what he was accused of.
So he was charged. And he was meant to spend [00:01:00] 10 years in prison, eight years on a good behavior bond or something like that. Hannah ended up actually dropping the case purely for her mental health. Because of the fact that it was just never going to end. He could continue to reappeal and this could potentially be something that just would go on for years and years and years.
And so for her own mental health, her physical health, her family, everyone's welfare, she actually dropped the case. Uh, I can't remember what year we go into it in the episode, but the reason why I'm saying this is in the past week, since we actually recorded. I have decided to blank out the name of the Colt and also the accused name, even though legally, we actually can.
the reason why is I'm just being very protective of Hannah. I'm being very protective of myself and. I think that when people are quite cunning, you have no idea what ends they will go to, to try to discredit or hurt somebody.
So this is a real cult in Australia. I have done a lot of [00:02:00] research on this coat, and as I said, I know Hannah personally. It is. Uh, devastating, cold, what the impact it can have on individuals lives and the people that are still living in this community. So. It will be slightly disjointed in this episode because I have had to blank out, obviously lots of words.
So if it was me speaking, then I've been able to dub over it by saying accused. when it's Hannah speaking, I have not been able to do that. So I've just literally had to blank out the actual words. So there'll be parts of it where it seems like maybe a slight bit of audio might be missing.
That is purely because I have retracted the individual's names or the accused name, and also the name of the cult, just to be extra cautious, even though legally, you actually can mention it because it is public knowledge now, because there are many articles about the Colt and about the court case, et cetera.
And we have not divulged any information that is outside of the court case, but. Yeah, this is just something that I chose to do. So dive in, enjoy. And Hannah is such a [00:03:00] wonderful human being. I know you're going to love her and yeah, it's wild. What Colts actually out there that we have no idea of that can be in our own home countries.
That, yeah, you just don't know what's in your own backyard. Let's just say that.
So I think that's all I had to say on that, but just grab your coffee and enjoy this episode and we'll talk soon. Bye.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode. We have quite the story for you today, guys, tuning in. This is Hannah. Hannah and I have actually known each other for a few years. We met through a gym bootcamp, actually, which is really cool. And we instantly hit it off and have been, you know, friends and have kept in contact ever since.
And our, our paths just kept crossing like all the time. Even when I lived in Canada, we kept in contact and, Hannah has quite a life story. It's one that, I'm not going to lie, as you listen, it may choke you up. I'm already choking up. I've got a box of tissues next to me because even though [00:01:00] I know a good chunk of Hannah's life story, it's still, it just blows my mind.
Just. I'm already choked up. Just your life experience, Hannah is extraordinary. It is crazy. And the fact that, oh my God, I'm already going to cry. The fact that you are sitting here as such a strong woman with a smile on your face, Blows my freaking mind. So we're going to get straight into it. First of all, I just want to welcome you, Hannah.
We are deliberately not saying Hannah's full name as we're getting to the story. You understand why, but I just want to welcome you, Hannah. Thank you so much for even accepting my invitation to sit and chat with me today about your life story and your crazy upbringing in a cult. So welcome. You're such a smiley, bubbly individual.
I have no prepared questions. This is literally a chat, like friend to friend. So anyone listening, grab your coffee and have a [00:02:00] listen. And the purpose of this.
Is not to be controversial for the sake of being controversial. I say that all the time. Yes, this podcast is called controversial as fuck. We discuss controversial topics, but it's not for the sake of it. It's not because, you know, we're trying to be edgy. We're trying to bring up the most controversial things that we possibly can.
It's actually, especially with this episode is to raise awareness and. Yeah, just to shine a light on, on human experience, to be honest. So I'm going to start actually just reading a part of a news article.
And this is from, 2019 for full context. I'm going to read this out loud. And then we're going to chat with Hannah just to find out some more and where she's at now as well. So Brainwashed girl, 13, who was sexually abused by Outback cult leader, reveals she was treated like his personal slave before she managed to escape his twisted experiment.
Like that already is mind boggling. A [00:03:00] girl who was abused by a cult leader has told what life was like under his reign. She was 13 when she started being sexually abused by leader accused convinced the cult that his thoughts and ideas were pure and good.
Cult members goal was to align their thoughts and values with his regime. They were ranked on emotional intelligence and gave up all assets and income. accused was in July found guilty, remember this is from 2019, was found guilty of unlawful sexual intercourse and jailed. And then it goes into the article.
I'm going to read a bit more. A girl who was sexually abused by an Australian outback cult leader has revealed what life was like under his tyrannical reign. The woman now 28 again, this is from 2019 was part of the group group. which her parents had joined when she was young. accused a self styled happiness guru, invented the cult as an experiment to try to discover the best way in which humans are supposed to live. He led a hurrah, I can never say, [00:04:00] there's so much, Thank you, structure. Some words stopped me. When members were ranked on their so called emotional intelligence with women expected to provide for the men, members were given daily tasks from morning exercises through to manual work with physical punishments if they did not do them.
When members joined, they were asked to give their income and all personal assets to the cult to pay for research, projects and expenses. From 2001 to 2008, accused and his 30 cult members, so it's quite a small group, 30 members, lived in Adelaide Hills,It was during that time that accused repeatedly sexually abused a girl, crimes for which he was jailed for 10 years in July. Again, this is from 2019. Now the girl has spoken to the Weekend Australian magazine to reveal what her life was like inside the twisted cult.
She said from the age of 13, she was treated like accused personal slave. The girl had to serve him [00:05:00] perfectly ripe fruit, run his bath, to a precise temperature, prepare his food, open doors for him and do his washing. She would also have to brush his hair and give him so called healing massages. I felt like I was only ever a piece of meat for accused to use when and where he wanted, the anonymous woman told the magazine.
I felt like I was being brainwashed, belittled and isolated. The sexual abuse began in 2004 when she was 13 and accused told her it was his duty to make her a lady. The girl had no idea accused abuse was out of line because he convinced his followers that his intentions were good. And they should try to copy him.
South Australian District Court Judge Paul Slattery told the court at his sentencing that he abused his power. He told her that she should not tell anyone of his suggestion that he could teach her how to become a lady. She did not understand what he meant, but she did not Ask any questions, Judge Slattery said.
This was consistent [00:06:00] with her understanding that the thoughts of accused were pure and good. And accused said he should assist her to become a lady, then that is what should happen. And then the news article goes on. I'm going to leave a link in the show notes. As I said before, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but this.
is a brutal cult to say the least. And I'm just going to start chatting with you about it. Yeah. So Hannah, you are obviously the individual in relation to that news article. That is correct. Yeah. So can you tell me when did, when did you start being a member of this
So I was born into it. So from a baby. And how did your parents come to
Speaker 4: being a part of
Speaker 2: it?
My dad's actually accused , brother, younger brother. Yeah. So this guy, is your uncle? Uncle. Yep. Yeah. And so your [00:07:00] parents became members of his group. Yeah. And you were raised in it from birth. So that's all that you knew. All that I knew.
Yep. So tell me, tell me what it was like growing up in it. Tell me about it. It's kind of like, where do you start? Hey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, it was horrible. Like it was so controlling. And. Like looking back on it now, I just, like, we were just so brainwashed. No one understands when I say that, like, even to this day, like we were told to jump.
If we didn't jump, we were physically bashed. We were emotionally bashed. We were mentally tortured. Like, so if you were told to do something and you questioned it, it could have been as little as go sweep out the front of the house when it's absolutely storming and raining. And I question going, but it's storming, it's raining.
Like, can I do it tomorrow? I would have been bashed for that
Speaker 3: physically,
Speaker 4: [00:08:00] physically, emotionally, and mentally. So physically I was either hit on the head. Sometimes I was starved for weeks at a time. I was made to sleep outside in the cold. I was made to swim in the river in the middle of the night.
We, and then emotionally we were ostracized. So we weren't allowed to talk to anybody or see anybody. We were basically locked in a dark room. Yeah, so there's a lot of, that's pretty much my whole childhood. I never remember like being able to play. Like, I don't remember having like Barbie dolls or you know, being able to have like friends and stuff over or sleepovers or anything like that.
We, cause we were never allowed to associate with people that weren't inside the cult. So they used to run a lot of seminars and that's how they would get people in. And if there was [00:09:00] families with young kids, like we were allowed to play with them because they were seen as coming. into the group. But everybody, every outside person was against the family, was the enemy so yeah, we didn't really associate with people unless we were trying to con them to come in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is really common in cults, is to have this Us versus them. Yeah, yeah. Separation, this is a common theme in cults, is to make you think that you are separate from the rest of society. And unless you Yeah, you go.
Speaker 4: Sorry, even from our families as well. Like, so, there was Obviously there was like like my family, which consists of my mum, my dad and my two brothers, but, and then there was a few other families, but we were never allowed to like, I was never allowed to call my mum, mum and dad.
I was never allowed to call my brothers, my [00:10:00] brothers, like. Everybody was my brother. Everybody was my mom and dad. And obviously accused was the, the, the God and everything revolved around him and what he wanted. He was Very feared in the, in the cult. Like, you know, he was the powerful one. He was God.
That's how he was treated and that's how,
Speaker 2: yeah. I did notice in some of the news articles that I went through that even down to he watched, or he got everyone to watch the gladiator movie and the way that they salute.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That like, apparently, and tell me if this is correct that when he walked into a room that people would have to like salute him.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So we used to have meetings and they were called the wisdom bank meetings where everybody would gather together and topics were raised. And in these wisdom bank meetings we would all have to summon together and then and they were called it all times of night. Like could be [00:11:00] three o'clock in the morning and accused could want to have a meeting.
So we'd all have to get woken up and come up. And we would all gather first. And then when we were all ready, I would go up and summon accused and tell him that we're all ready. And then he would come down. And when he walked in the door, we'd all have to stand up and put our. Right hand across our shoulder and go strength and honor and it had, and it was very specific that way it had to be done.
It was like, you couldn't just go strength and honor. Like it had to be like very stand up straight, very fast across the chest, which again, we were punished if we didn't do it right.
Speaker 2: Wow. So, yeah, you guys were, were taught that he was like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, from a very young age, like, we were, we had to call him accused purely from the fact that accused the snake is one of the feared, most feared snakes in the world.
Speaker 2: It's a very, you know, it's a deadly snake. So that's how his name came about and we never called him accused unless we were [00:12:00] out in public. Yeah. Wow. So he really pushed this whole, like you are to fear me. Yep. Yep. Yep.
And so did you all live together?
Speaker 4: Yes. So, we'll talk about the Aubrey Park place that had like a mansion up the top and the People that were higher on the rank lived up there. So accused lived up there with his eldest daughter and a few of, and most of the people that serve accused , like the, cause there was only ever females serving accused
Speaker 3: too.
All
Speaker 4: the females that served him lived up there. Most of them, but myself and a few of the other ones didn't. We lived down at the barracks, which was like a 31 room. Just, well, we called it the, the barracks.
Speaker 2: Wow. And so in the barracks, that's all the rest of the people, like all the rest of the members were there.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Living alone. Yeah. Wow. So you [00:13:00] spent like every day together?
Yeah. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact of like, This wasn't just a place that you would go, like for instance, in some cults you, if it's like a religious cult, maybe you're a part of it at set times of the day, but then outside of that, it's your normal life. This is literally, your entire existence was this.
Speaker 4: Entire existence was in it.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't a religious cult though, was it?
Speaker 4: No, his, no, it was, it's purely just about accused and his ego.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like it. And what I read was that he had been to Vietnam war. Yeah. And from that was, I guess, birthed this whole thing about this human environment.
Can you talk any about that? Like, what was the whole purpose of the cult?
Speaker 4: So, Obviously, because I was, had been born into it, I didn't know anything different, but what he was preaching that he was like to anybody outside the cult, he [00:14:00] was preaching that he had created the ideal human environment.
So where people were getting it, people would got along, people were working in harmonious to sort out problems and things. So anybody looking in would see that we were a functional happy loving, safe family.
Speaker 3: Mm-Hmm, .
Speaker 4: But a lot of people came in and then once they realized what was going on, were able to escape.
Speaker 2: And yeah, wow. And so what would a typical day look like for you as a child?
Speaker 4: So for, for me, we would have to get up at between six and seven. At eight o'clock we had to do line up, which was where we, all the kids would stand in rank from highest to lowest and would stand on the kitchen bent, like along the kitchen thing.
And there'd be [00:15:00] someone older facilitating it. And if anybody had any problems, I would raise them and then we'd get our list of jobs for the day. But before we got to line up, we'd had to do our morning chores. Which could have been sweeping outside the front of the house or making, there was like, we had a massive humongous shoe rack with like, Well, I don't even know how many shoes, but it was always messy.
So it'd be tidying them up every morning and then we'd have to have breakfast and do our exercises, which we had there was a pay a four page of like, I think it was about 30 exercises we had to do. And if we hadn't done our chores or exercises, we were not allowed to eat until we'd done them. So if we hadn't done that before then, and we had like a busy day of doing everything else.
And we couldn't do exercise until night. We couldn't eat during the day. Everybody had to be very fit. Like accused liked people [00:16:00] thin. He liked his women thin.
Speaker 2: And so you would have, yeah, so punishment could be like, literally stopping you from eating. Yeah,
Speaker 4: yep, yep. I remember like just one vivid thing.
I think it must have been like a week, a week to two weeks that I was not allowed to eat. And purely because I didn't have accused intention. I didn't, I wasn't thinking the same and I often got into a lot of trouble because I'm quite strong willed
Speaker 3: and
Speaker 4: I stand up for what I think is not right.
And I was often very, I was bashed a lot and I got a lot of consequences because I would question things or say, or maybe this is not right. Maybe we could do it some other way or or the testing said that I didn't. Wasn't thinking the same as accused . So the testing, which we'll go into that in a minute, [00:17:00] but the testing said that I was, didn't have accused best interest at heart, I was thinking about myself and what was best for Hannah.
So I wasn't allowed to eat. And I remember like I started vomiting up. Like really, it was like dry blood and it basically, it was the lining of my stomach because it'd been that long. And there was times like, you know, we weren't allowed to eat or drink. And that could go on for days. So there weren't like little punishes.
There were big punishments for such little minor things.
But yeah.
Speaker 2: Wowzers. It's hard for me to comprehend, and I'm not laying blame on them, but it's because I do understand the conditioning, it's hard for me to understand parents or siblings not stepping in to protect one another. And I guess that is how he had full control was, again, you weren't family.
Speaker 4: The problem is like. I even [00:18:00] said in the when I was doing the court case, like I was bashed by my brother for calling him an asshole. Cause he kicked a ball into my face. Like they all stood around, all the kids stood around me in a ring and accused instructed my older brother to bash me to the ground.
He did that three times, but if he didn't do that, I would have got it worse from someone else or he would have got it worse. So. Like you just, you have no, you have no control over your thinking because it's all taken away from you. And if you don't let them take away from you, it's punished because accused belief was people, humans only move through pain.
Speaker 2: So if they're, if we're not in pain, then we don't move. We don't learn things. And that was his whole motto. [00:19:00] Wow. Yeah. Okay. And so you could never feel safe, I'm guessing, to run to a parent for help.
Speaker 4: And back then, like, I never knew that police or or Centrelink or that there was people out there that could actually help.
And then because I was always told that Everybody was the enemy. Everybody was out to get us. They were out to steal our energy. Like we have to keep our energy in this group. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Very cunning way of keeping you in line and keeping you there forever. Yep.
Speaker 4: And so
Speaker 2: did you not go to a regular school?
Speaker 4: We did and for primary school,
I actually don't really remember. My child, like I, even to this day, like I can't read and write properly cause we were never really like, and then we did homeschooling. [00:20:00] I never, we never did it. the education department thought that we, that's what we were doing, but we weren't actually doing it.
And when we got to the age that. You know, we could start thinking kind of for ourself and like that school became like, you know, high school, when you go to high school, I've heard that it's very like, you have to do lots of homework, you have to spend a lot of time doing school.
None of us ever did that. Well, none of the younger kids, like his kids did a couple of them did like, he's got, you know, two lawyers and well, three lawyer kids and yeah, but for me, no.
Speaker 2: Which is very clever on his behalf to have, cause I noticed that it looked like they had their own law firm or yeah, very clever.
If you do run a cult. And your whole thing is keeping members in line and to not have everybody educated, but to have your own immediate family highly educated and [00:21:00] having their own law firm. That's Yeah. Very clever on, on his behalf. Yeah. You mentioned before about testing, not in relation to school, but what was, what did you mean by that?
Speaker 4: Testing was like, we had this I can't even remember the man that came up with this study, but it was it's kind of using like what he used to say, INS, like intuition.
And they like, lots of people do it different ways. You can either put a ring on a necklace and you ask a question and if it goes one way, it's a yes.
If it goes the other way, it's a no. But they used to do it where they used to put the hand up straight and then a question would be asked and either someone would, you had to do it with two fingers and I had to be the right hand, her arm and the two left hand fingers. And you would basically push. On your or just above your, like where your hand stops.
Speaker 3: And
Speaker 4: if it went up, then it was a yes. And if it went down, it was a [00:22:00] no. So you'd have someone pushing the opposite way. And then it was just one person doing it with no one pushing. So if the arm went up, it was a yes. If it went down, it was a no. So basically you asked me a question and it had to be a very specific question.
So, all the time it was, does Hannah have accused Intentions. And there was two main people that would do the testing. And if it went up, it was a yes. And if it went down, it was a no. So like, and that's what it was all based upon. So I could be having a really shit day and I could be the tester and not like you today.
So I'd go no. And then you would get punished.
Speaker 2: And is this done publicly? Is everyone, is it all done individually?
Sometimes it was publicly. So at the wisdom bait meetings, it was done a lot. But then sometimes if someone just wanted to ask a question it was done just with a few people. It's, oh my God, my mind is just like, it's a lot of very, like, you must have lived in [00:23:00] fear constantly.
Oh, all the time because you just never know what's gonna happen, what's gonna be asked of you.
Speaker 4: No. And you wake up going, oh, what's today gonna be another shit day? Like, what's, you know, what am I gonna have to do today? Or you never wake up. Oh my God, it's gonna be such a good day. Like it's my birthday.
Like you just, yeah.
Speaker 2: And this is all you knew from birth.
Speaker 4: Yep. And I'd always, like, when the abuse, mainly the physical abuse, like the sexual abuse, when that started, that was when I was like, I just want out, but I didn't know what to do. And, like, I have vivid memories of having this dream where, because I was, we stayed on the second story of the house, and I have, Like this, the dream was the same and I've had it for years that I was, I would jump out of the, out of my window and we had a fence [00:24:00] and I'd climb the fence.
And just run, just run anywhere, but I could never move
Speaker 3: like
Speaker 4: I was running, but I wasn't actually moving. And then, and then I'd like wake myself up and I'm like, where can I go? I have no money. I don't know what to do. Who's going to believe me? Because everybody around thought that we were such. a perfect family and, and the people that thought any different, like thought that there was something funny going on, were too scared to even speak up or yeah.
Speaker 2:
you knew, there's obviously other children that are a part of the group. Was it mainly just a few families? Cause. From what I can see, the most was like 30 members, or was it ever a lot bigger than that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot bigger now. So when, so when I left so I left when I was 18 and I left [00:25:00] because my, my older brother actually left before me. So I knew I had somewhere to go.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, he, he's actually back in there now.
Speaker 2: Wow. I'll get into, I want to get into all of that in a second, actually, before I do, I just want to make sure I don't skip some of the, the beginnings of it.
What was the purpose of the cult? Like, other than it's just, it's just accused philosophies on life and, but like, what was it, what was he teaching you guys to do or to be? What was the ideal environment according to him?
Speaker 4: He, like his main focus was to create a place where everybody could live, work in harmonious and that's, that's what he was preaching to everybody.
To me, now that I'm out. All he ever wanted to do was have control of everything, people's money, people's mind, people's [00:26:00] bodies. That's what he was creating. And yeah, but he was, they were doing these seminars on how to resolve problems like that you can't, like you and I, if we, if I had a problem with you, Hollie you and I can't resolve it together.
We had to bring someone else in. So that's what they were preaching to people, but behind closed doors, it was far from the ideal environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like there was a very like calculated move to give a public perception of what was going on is like it's perfect and it's obvious and obviously behind closed doors living in it, especially from birth, it's a totally different story, what you actually went
Speaker 3: through.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So talk to me then, you mentioned before about the sexual abuse and obviously only go where you feel comfortable to go, like you don't have to talk about any of this at all. but. [00:27:00] What age did that start? If you're even comfortable to go there.
Speaker 4: So I got my period when I was 12 and it was public knowledge to everybody.
So I didn't understand about periods or anything, but and I actually got it at school and I was like, thought I was dying.
Speaker 3: And
Speaker 4: we had a doctor in the group. Who's my auntie who I went and saw. And then the next day. The whole, everybody, 30 people knew that I had my period. So it was quite, quite embarrassing and humiliating.
I like, I had my older cousin who was, who a male come and say, Oh, congratulations, you're a female now. Like, so that's when it, that's when the grooming started because I had to, that's when I started serving accused . And so that's when I was running, you know, learning how to do his nails. And [00:28:00] then the sexual abuse started.
Speaker 2: Wow. So he would literally teach from my understanding, young women or older women, how to actually like serve his every need, like you said, down to like nails and yeah,
Speaker 4: so he wouldn't teach it. There was one of the main females, his main carer actually taught me how to do it.
And then one of my cousins taught me how to do his.
Clothes, put away his clothes. 'cause there was a specific way. So it was like, once she became too old, I took her spot and she signed, kind of got pushed to the side, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. So yeah. And what, and so this was, you said 12 from age of 12?
Speaker: Yeah. So the abuse started when I was about 13.
Sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: What made, what did make you come forward?
Speaker 4: So I had. I left the cult when I was [00:29:00] 18 and I walked out before my birthday and the, the night that I actually walked out we had, we had moved to Kununurra at this time. So the cult, yeah, so the cult had kept constantly moving around.
And we had moved to Kununurra, and we had a property out. Like, just out of town a bit. And then we, and then mom had a property with her, with her work. Your mom did. So a couple of people would stay there. Mom would stay there. And then most of the people would stay at the other property. But it was tested that, so we, whoever the female serving accused would have to stay out at the property and be in the main house for, you know, for him.
But it was tested that I could go into town with mum and dad. And accused turned around and said no, that I had to stay out at the [00:30:00] other property. Which I knew what that meant. I knew that he wanted sex, and I was Just like my brother left three days before I was emotional and I was like, nah, I want to leave and I want to go be with my brother and I was like yelled at.
I was abused. I was I was told by accused that that I was inebriated on my own thoughts. That I would never survive all of this. Anyway, I ended up after about half an hour of being yelled at and everything else, like just walking out pretty much. But what made me go to the police was I have to bring out for a few years.
I. Met my partner, husband now and we fell pregnant when I was 20 weeks, I found out that I was having a little girl. Which brought up a lot of emotions for me that like, I had a lot of anger and I was very scared of the [00:31:00] cult when I left. Because they would come into my work. They would abuse me at work.
They would send me threatening letters. Yeah, like a lot. So I was very scared, but when I found out that When I saw the ultrasound that I was having a little girl, it gave me the power to finally speak out. And I had like tried telling a few people when I'd left what sort of happened, but no one really ever questioned me or I couldn't, didn't trust anybody enough to actually say, He sexually abused me, like, and then yeah, that's what gave me the strength of my little girl, who's now a big girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really want to acknowledge right there your strength because it may be hard for people to fully comprehend. But if we just try for a second to put ourselves in your shoes, this was all that you knew from birth. Yeah. Like there was no [00:32:00] before that to compare to what life was like before entering this cult.
This was your entire existence. It's all you
Speaker 3: knew
Speaker 2: the, I would say brainwashing the control, the manipulation, all of it was all that you had ever known. And as you said, you didn't, you weren't even aware of, you know, Centrelink or, you know, that there's services out there or, and It very much that us versus them that was instilled in you from birth, legit from birth.
So to then, and then to have gone through not just all of that, but then add to it, the layer of sexual abuse from age 13, like you're a child. Oh, it enrages me. You're a child. Yeah. And to add that layer to it, to then get to the point where you actually leave, like everything that you had ever known, everyone that you, that was your family in a sense.
Like literally all of them are [00:33:00] all in there. And you, you leave, there's only one person outside of it that you knew, which is your brother. And to have that kind of courage knowing that, then you get. As you just said, they're coming into your work over, over time and, you know, trying to discredit you. Like that's intense.
You have so much strength. And trying to
Speaker 4: get me back as well. Like they kept trying to pull me back and say, you know, you can come and live with us and we'll, you know, things will change. And and like accused tried it numerous times. And I was, yeah, no way in hell.
Speaker 2: No. And so when you left, like, how did you leave?
Like, could you literally, like, how did you get out? How did you go? How, what was all that like? Are you able to access that?
Speaker 4: So we had to, we were all made to sign contracts. That if we ever left depending on what you kind of, what they thought you [00:34:00] were worth is what you got. So I, my contract, most of the kids actually, it was 500.
That was all we were allowed to take. If we ever left and you weren't, we weren't allowed to have contact once we left. So once we left, you were out, you were against the family, you were on your own. Yeah. So I left with it was about 400 bucks that I got
Speaker 2: and that was it. So, okay. So you would tell them I'm leaving and then they would have to, they would, they actually gave you the money for you to be able to leave, even though they're obviously against you leaving.
Speaker 4: So I left and I ended up moving in with some, some guy that I was seeing. The day that I left.
Speaker 2: Wow. So, yeah, and when you say you had to have no contact. So your parents, obviously, and one, one of your siblings was still a part of it at that point. Yes. So you knew that that would mean that you couldn't have [00:35:00] contact with your immediate family as well.
Speaker 4: that was hard because like, even though. You know, I wasn't allowed to call them mum and dad. They are still my blood. They are still my mum and dad. And same with like, some of the cousins that I left behind, I was really close with. And I hurted for them and for myself. Especially because they were females.
That I knew once I'd left it, it opened it up for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And, and that's what gave me the strength to go to the police as well, knowing that there's nothing stopping him from doing it to the next person
Speaker 3: and then
Speaker 4: the next person and then the next person.
But I did kind of stay in contact with mum and dad, like she would secretly call me.
And. But I could never call them or if I ever needed help, [00:36:00] I could never call them and go, I'm in hospital. And that happened a few times actually, where I needed my mum or dad for that matter. And I just didn't have them.
Speaker 2: Wow. And then, okay, so then you went to the police. What was that experience like for you at first?
Like, yeah, it was
Speaker 4: horrible. So, one, I wasn't prepared for what would happen when I went to the police. So bit of a bit of backtracking, but when the first person I told was actually my cousin. Who was accused youngest son.
Speaker 2: So this is whilst you were still in the cult?
Speaker 4: No, so I was out of the cult and he had also left.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: And we stayed in contact and he was the first person that I told. And he was like, you need to go to the [00:37:00] police.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: And so that's what I did. I went to, walked into Alice Springs Police. And said that I had been sexually abused by my uncle. And then that's when we started the court case.
So I had to go in and do statements. I was pregnant at this stage. I was like 21, 22 weeks pregnant. Had no support around me. You know, didn't realize. How much the court case was actually going to consume my life or how hard it was going to be.
And when I was 25 weeks, I went into pre labor because of the stress of having to do the statement.
And. Yeah, lots of hospital trips because so in the end, I have to pull a plug up, pull the pin on it and just say, like, I couldn't, the doctor actually advised that I couldn't do it anymore. So we stopped doing the [00:38:00] statement. And then I had, My daughter, and then when she was not even a year old, about six months old, we started up the statement again, which just brought up like a whole lot of like, re traumatizing again, having to retell everything again to a new detective.
And then unfortunately the system every three months, the detectives change. So having to tell my story to like seven different detectives and then and it's not just a simple story. It's quite like, there's a lot of different pieces that all like tell the bigger picture.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So having to go through that, like seven different times was just.
insane. Like it was so traumatizing and so, just draining. And the whole [00:39:00] court process as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so from my understanding, that was over years, the whole court.
Speaker 4: Yes. So I went when I was 2022 and it finished. I pulled, completely pulled it last year. So 11 and a half years. Wow. Okay, the court proceedings.
Speaker 2: And, and so just so that the listeners can understand. So the article that I read out loud at the beginning was from 2019, which said that he was charged. and was facing, I saw a couple of different things. One said eight years prison and one said 10.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So it was 10 years prison with an eight year good behavior bond.
And then, so that was the first case. And then it was appealed on a technicality, which they won. So we had [00:40:00] to go through the court case. Again, with a jury. So he applied for a judge only. And then the second case, second time around was a jury only, which again, found him guilty of the charges, which he was again, sentenced to.
Speaker 2: And then when from there, so that, what year was that? That was I think it was about 21, I think he was sentenced again.
I vaguely remember that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, 2021. Cause then 2023, I completely dropped it. So, so we, I had been through two trials. he was found both guilty on both of those trials.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then the second one again, another legal technicality that had nothing to do with him not being found guilty.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Again. And then it was meant to be going into court. January this [00:41:00] year. 2024. 2024. And then it was about July last year. I had a complete mental breakdown and just got to the point where I was actually sick of fighting the legal system.
And just said, I'm done and pulled it. You pulled it.
Speaker 2: And what made you pull it? Apart from being sick of fighting. What, what was the, yeah, what made you pull it? Where you were like, I can't do this.
Speaker 4: The fact that the, it's the legal system, like he can appeal it a million times. And he was only ever winning on technicalities, nothing to do with the evidence.
Nothing to do with the judge or the jury not believing my story or anything like that. It was all such minor things that actually have nothing to do with [00:42:00] anything other than a legal, like, a legal thing,
Speaker 3: which
Speaker 4: is mind boggling to me. And and when I actually dropped it, I said like the, the legal system has done all it can for me.
And I, I honestly believe that like I could be fighting it for the next 15 years. And that's, That's the honest truth, which would have happened. I would have gone in January, we would have won it again. They would have peeled it again, then I would have had to do the whole court proceedings again. And it's, it's very the whole court proceeding is like, it's so consuming, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: infecting your health.
That's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Hannah. how are you now? I'm good.
Speaker 4: Like it took me, so obviously once I fully dropped it there was a lot of toing and froing, like I had said before, like when we once, [00:43:00] cause I didn't, I thought he would get away with it because he's gotten away with his, my whole, like for the whole 18 years, he got away with it and the way that they deal with things, I just, you know, was prepared, I prepared myself that he was never going to be found guilty, but I had done what I needed to do.
So when we got the first verdict that he was guilty, I was actually standing in Santorini and I was told that he was found guilty and locked up and I was like, I couldn't believe it. I didn't believe it. And then same with the second time around, I was like, no, he's definitely going to get off of it.
But again, he was found guilty. So when, like, I just, I knew that I had done all I could for myself and for the girls still in there. And that was always what, that's what drove me as well was trying to protect the ones that are still in there. [00:44:00] I got to a point where I was like, I can't actually protect them because it's like, I'm basically dying myself like, and I was, I've been, I've had, I was suicidal.
I was not in a good place because I just felt. It was, I couldn't go to sleep at night without having like vivid flashbacks. I couldn't, like, I was constantly living in fear still.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And yeah, I just got to a point last year where I was like, I want to heal from this. And I felt like as long as the court case and everything was still going, that I could never finally put it behind me.
Speaker 3: Cause there was
Speaker 4: always. Something or, you know, bringing it up. And I just wanna heal. I just wanna move on from this nightmare. Like now I talk about it and I'm fine. I don't break down. I talk about it because I'm proud of where I am today. [00:45:00] Andas horrible as this is. If I hadn't have had such a shit traumatic childhood, I would not be where I am right now.
Like, I am so grateful for the life that I've built. And I have built it and it's, no one else has done it for me. I have worked so hard mentally, physically, and emotionally to get where I am right now. And to be able to talk about it and not feel ashamed, not feel scared. I feel empowered. Like I honestly feel empowered talking about it because there are so many people in life that attract or maybe living an abusive relationship, whether it's physically or violently I mean, emotionally that don't have the courage and strength to move out.
And I had a choice where I could either end my life and be done with it, or I can push on [00:46:00] and do the hard slog and it has, it's been hard. It's not been easy. But I'm getting there and every day I wake up and I'm a little bit closer to, you know, where I want to be. And yeah.
Speaker 2: You have so much strength, Hannah, you are the epitome of someone who takes a lot of radical responsibility in life.
I just really want to say that to you, because I always say, and some people may think that this sounds harsh. I always say, yes, we're not responsible for what happened in our past. We're not like everything you've been through is absolutely disgusting. You did not deserve any of it. You like, you are not responsible for any of that from your childhood.
But we are responsible for the healing and you have taken full responsibility of your healing journey and of changing your life story and turning it into something that is shit and painful and abusive and a nightmare. [00:47:00] And you're turning it into such beauty in your life and you're an incredible mother to your girls.
And just like, yeah, I have the utmost respect for you for such a life story that most people is, it's mind boggling. It is actually mind boggling what you've been through.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like, like even to this day when I talk to like, my friends and stuff about it, like it's just not comprehensive how like fucked up it was.
Like it's just, yeah, like, and I used to get mad at myself for going like, why didn't I just leave? Or like, you know, and I've had like, my partner, he asked me that, he's like, why don't you just leave? And I was like, because you just, you don't understand how brainwashed you are. Yeah. And I always knew it but I just didn't know where to go like, or what to do or how to get out of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Cause we [00:48:00] were so conditioned to think to see accused , like that's all we lived for. And, and that's what we were told, like from as young as I can remember, we were put on this earth, humans were put on this earth to serve accused . Oh my God.
Speaker 4: Like we even thought that in 2021, when the world was going to end, we were believed We were made to believe that in 2021, 2012, sorry, when the earth was going to blow up and all of that, that we were going to get, we were going to be the chosen ones to be picked up by the aliens because we, Well, accused
Speaker 2: that's what was taught to you guys. That's
Speaker 4: what we were taught. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and again, it is difficult for someone listening. If you have never been in an abusive situation, if you've never been in a cult, if you've never been in like a high controlling situation, it would be hard for people to comprehend and be like, well, why?
Why don't people leave? But I, [00:49:00] I've always given like, cause I, I am fascinated with cults. I really am. And because of, I can see the insidious ways that they do get you with the mind control and with the mental manipulation and coercion and, and the, we are a unit and we're separate from everybody else.
And this is all that, you know, and just all of it. Yeah. The breakdown of someone's self trust, like you were taught to not trust yourself. You're taught to not, to not believe what your heart is telling you or what your intuition is telling you. Like you have to silence it all. You're taught to not listen to your emotions or like all different sorts of definitely
Speaker 4: like we were never allowed to cry.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, I'd love for you to go there. Cause I did see that in one of the articles to explain that to me.
Speaker 4: So we were never allowed to cry because crying showed a sign of weakness. So, if you'd hurt yourself, like if you'd fallen over and grazed yourself, you weren't allowed to cry because you were
Speaker 2: Even as [00:50:00] children.
Speaker 4: Even as children, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ugh. It's hard to not picture my little girl as you're talking and just want to like protect you, Hannah. Like from a mother's heart. It's, it is difficult and I know people listening. will probably be screaming right now and just want to protect young Hannah as well and just people that are still a part of something like this.
And as I said, it is hard to understand if you are now as an adult and you've never been through something similar to comprehend. What it is like, and I mean, I can't even comprehend what it was like for you and, but just a taste of understanding how cults do work and how they, how they do manipulate, like it would have taken all of your strength to have left.
Like that's incredible. Who from your immediate family, if you're willing to go, there is still a part of it.
Speaker 4: So my two brothers are now my older brother went back and my dad. [00:51:00]
Speaker 2: Wow, so they're still in it. Do you have any contact with them at all?
Speaker 4: No,
Speaker 2: no. Oh, that would be incredibly painful too.
Speaker 4: Not anymore.
It was. But I think after doing the court proceedings and them like being testifying against me was just like for me and like even to this day, like my My girls, my older two, they've obviously met my brother. And when he was out and we had a relationship with him and even my dad, they met a few times and they're like, where are they?
Speaker 2: And I've
Speaker 4: actually told them that they died in a car accident.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 4: Just to me, that's like, if people ask me if I've got family, I'm like, no.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. That's, that's so messed up, man, that they're still, that's so sad that your brother, your older brother returned after a while. What would be, let's just say, [00:52:00] and the chances of this are probably slim, let's just say someone hears this, that is a part of the cult.
Maybe it's a young person that's a part of the cult. As I said, chances are probably slim, but let's just say they hear it. What would be your message to them?
Speaker 4: I think, like, you just have to take one step. Just take one step. Just, just leave. Like, I wish, like, I wish that these places didn't exist and these groups didn't exist.
But, you know, you could be in a, an abusive relationship or you could have a, a friend that's manipulative or and I have, I've had like since leaving the cult I've, and I think age as well has got a bit to do with that. But like, I now have. Friendships that are meaningful. [00:53:00] They're not abusive, they're not manipulative.
And I can see that now cause I could never see that before. And I'm a very giving person. I like to give and I like to help and and that's my downfall. But I think for anybody that is in a situation where they don't feel right, or they don't, they feel like that, you know, they might not know how to get that, you just have to.
Like, get up, do something like, and not be the victim because that's the other thing. I could have quite easily looked at my childhood and go, and I've had a fucked up childhood. I'm just going to smoke, I'm just going to drink, and I'm just going to do nothing with my life.
Speaker 3: That
Speaker 4: would have been so easy, but instead I've got a really good job.
I've got beautiful kids. I've got you know, I've created the life that. I should have had or [00:54:00] that I, you know, that I, that I want now. And it, and it's hard, it's not easy. Yeah, you just gotta make, you just gotta make that step, that one step.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful message. And, and yeah, learning, learning to, to trust yourself is a journey to learn, learn that again.
It definitely can take time. And, but you absolutely like can get to that point where you have such strong self trust. I mean, I see it in you just, yeah, where you trust yourself and you're like, I can do this. And yeah. Mad respect to you Hannah. Obviously we didn't go through every little detail about the cult.
But I so appreciate you and your vulnerability and speaking about this because it's not just you telling a story, but you've actually lived it. It's very different when, when you've lived it. This is your life. And yeah, thank you so much. And I just think it's important to shed awareness because they are still a cult operating in Australia.[00:55:00]
They're in Western Australia now, aren't they? Exactly.
Speaker 4: I think they're in Queensland as well now.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: Do you know
Speaker 2: how big it is now or, or no, no idea?
Speaker 4: They've got like a clothing brand. They've got like the law firm. They've got like a coffee business. They've got a lot now. So I, I, yeah, it's pretty big.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And again, I will link some articles in the show notes for people if they want to, you know, check it out, check out some of the articles from back, 2019 was what I could see a lot of. And yeah, is there anything that you want to add before we finish this up? Anything that you want to say or any question you wish I had have asked you?
Speaker 4: I think like the biggest thing for me, I am where I am today because of the support that I have around me. So if I didn't have that support, like, and I didn't have it for years. So when I was going through the court case I didn't have it when I left the cult, I didn't have it, but in the last probably five years, I've [00:56:00] like, just got such a good support network.
And I think having the kids just gave me the strength to push on. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Something changes you when you become a mother, hey?
Speaker 4: Yeah,
Speaker 2: definitely. Definitely. Yeah. It changes everything, that's for sure. And I think especially you having daughters, like, Yeah, so much empathy for that younger Hannah that you couldn't have done anything different.
You couldn't have like, there's a quote by Peter Crone, I don't know if you've heard of him. I'm going to butcher it. But it's something like the actually let me Google it. Give me one second.
Speaker 3: But it is sad. There's. cults and groups do exist. And I think it's becoming more like they're becoming more exposed.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's healthy to talk about them. I know a lot of people see them as quite taboo topics, especially if they're cults that are still operating. It's one thing to talk about a cult that's no more.
Yeah. [00:57:00] Let's talk about one that's still actually operating and still has people being influenced and manipulated. Like, yeah, it takes courage to come out and speak out about it. Like you have, it's huge. Here's the quote. So this is by Peter Crone. What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way because it didn't.
And that's the thing, like often we can judge ourselves or why didn't I do this? So why didn't I do that? Or why did I stay or whatever the situation might've been, but. What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way because it didn't. And that's the thing like having I really do believe you being a mom and having your daughters would have helped to create so much empathy for younger you that it didn't have to be any other way that this is how it's happened and And now you've created the life that, that you wanted, which is beautiful.
Speaker 4: when I found out I was having the little girl, it was like, That's when I was like, Oh my God, I have to protect,
Speaker 3: like,
Speaker 4: [00:58:00] so,
Speaker 2: yeah. Well, Hannah, you're giving me goosebumps. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being so incredible. And I love your guts. You're a legend. And yeah, I think we've covered everything, hey?
Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, there's so much to cover, but we've been here for days. We'll leave it at that.
THE SHOW
